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Adam Boot

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Adam Boot last won the day on April 23

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About Adam Boot

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    Pupa

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  • Beekeeping Experience
    Honey Marketer

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    Auckland

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  1. Good idea I would point out that you created this thread. If you did not want discussion, debate feedback, then why start it?
  2. So at $5 per kg where does the co op get all those $millions from on day one when they have no sales? The sales lag will mean that they are committed to buy more than they sell for a number of years, even if successful. Where are all the other $millions coming from to support the guaranteed purchase? Plus the $millions needed to support the infrastructure overhead? The $32m talked about so far is way off the mark. This would not even cut it for the first 2 years.
  3. I never said 'Trust Me' simply because I care neither way. It is what it is. You do whatever due diligence makes you happy. Your comment - 'and yet the quantity of Non Faux Manuka available to the market has dropped' I do not see the relevence of this to our particular business model. If the life raft is simply a mirage, you have expended all that energy to arrive at the same result. I have not said that a co op can not work. I have simple stated that in my opinion 'this' co op, starting with the position of promising to buy all the honey produced and an inflated rate above market value, cannot work. Where is all the money going to magically appear from?
  4. But for the first few years the Co Op sales will be a fraction of what they have commit to purchase. How will it fund those purchases and at prices guaranteed above market rate? The economics as they have been portrayed on this forum today are fundamentally flawed?
  5. @Adam Boot said @Adam Boot I’ve said before on the forum that mono Manuka with low markers isn’t selling and have been basically poo pooed by more than a couple of people saying there’s plenty of demand for mono as long as it meets the standard and yet I know of multiple beekeepers who have this type of honey and no buyer. So what has happened where has the market gone how can it have basically died overnight ? since seeing my replies to your questions regarding our honey you haven’t said a word about saleability that tells me that I am right and that something has happened to the Manuka market which has pretty much killed it dead at the lower end of the scale. If this is the case I would love to know why but nobody is talking. It’s not only the guys in Northland that are feeling the pinch it’s beekeepers like us that don’t get the activity in our honey but still get Manuka that are also being affected by this new standard. Does anyone know know how to find out what tonnage of honey is shipped out of the country each month ? I agree that you honey is Mono floral Manuka. However, the Mono markets starts at UMF5+. You cannot put the UMF mark on anything under 5+. It then falls into an area where it is competing on the MGO content. It will be blended and sold as MGO30, 50, 70 or 85 multi floral. Because of the Low C4 your honey has a value to blend with other Mono also. There is nothing wrong with your honey it is just an awkward fit. No body seems to what or be able to explain HOW? How can the Co Op buy all the honey of the beekeepers at a rate above market price? Also, how will you cap the membership? As it is I do not see how you can fund the purchase of all the honey from 280 members and 113,000 hives. What if more signed up and it was 200,000 hives? The better the Co Op makes the offer the more beekeepers will want to sign up to the guaranteed sale. How the hell is the massive upfront cost being funded. Lets just seperate this into two parts. The beekeepers are to be members of a co op that purchases the honey they produce. The Beekeepers are the experts in running apiaries producing honey. Why do you want experts in beekeeping running the rest of the business - food processing, packing, logistics and marketing? If you treat this as a serious food production business creating and marketing FMCG products you will definitely not want it run by beekeepers. I would suspect that the beekeepers would want that side of the company run by experts also. In my opinion I would not pay any real concern to this. The Big C has enough major issues of it's own to worry about. Relaunching to old brands is not going to be the saviour they need. They are probably going to have a major restructure and will need to make some very dramatic and drastic changes to their current model first. Resource spent on relaunches at this point would just paint over the cracks. Your comment - 'Honey marketers are telling us that the international Manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as Manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured' Who is saying this? I have not heard this or experienced this. Yes it has become more complex and challenging to meet market requirements. In my own experience it has not softened. Daily and weekly enquiries for Manuka are at levels I have never experienced before. We have expanded our sales department from 3 to 9 in the past 12 months and this is soon to increase again. New markets are opening and growing all the time. We have hardly scratched the surface. The global market has never been so exciting for Manuka. What has happened is that the retail price has found a ceiling. The prices are not dropping it is just that constant annual increases have ended. The market price has found some stability.
  6. In my opinion, if you your feasibility study is reliant on a lawyer an accountant and a lecturer then you my as well burn your $100k - Where are the business experts?
  7. I would bloody hope they can reach $100k. If it is so easy though, why is it still a 50/50 call with 6 days to go to the deadline? This should have been wrapped in 24 hours.
  8. 'mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it' Are you absolutely sure it is Mono by the MPI standard? Are we talking significant volume or just one or two barrels? Hi Bruce Firstly I think that your efforts in this area are commendable and the end goal of providing greater security for beekeepers is paramount. I believe the analogy with the fishing industry to be spurious. Unless a quota system is introduced the industry has no need to develop in this way. I would also add that if you look at the top 5 producer/packers in this industry - Those that have committed to the largest hive numbers are struggling the greatest. Look at the big C? Many are now deciding to focus solely on Beekeeping or solely on producing and packing. Balancing a combined business model is extremely difficult and the fixed cost overhead burden of a large apiary is a dangerous commitment. The commitment to using the honey that they produce them selves often leaves them financially impaired and over burdened with the wrong stock. There is little guarantee that what you have harvested actually marries with the brands and ranges you have committed to market and sell. It is inevitable that you really substantially on market supply to make up differences and fill gaps. Though Co ops have some merit my concern in this instance is that 280 Beekeepers cannot raise $350 each almost instantly. $100,000 should not be a 50:50 call? Additionally 113,000 hives is less than 15% of the industry. Will that be enough to alter or influence market values? My immediate thought is the freight cost per kg dealing with 280+ seperate suppliers. Achieving economical loads from every region will be difficult. The Co Op starts with a disadvantage. Build an organisation based on the ethics and morality of helping each other. All good businesses would do well to have this as a foundation. Commit to purchase the member’s honey in good years and bad years. How can this promise be kept without placing huge financial burden on a fledgling business. How can you continue to buy with no guarantee of sales demand equaling supply. If 113,000 hives produced 25kg each and you only paid $5 per kg - The Co Op needs $14m+ year one with no established customers, brand, range or market position. This is before Executive management, staff and all overhead. To have any comfort factor over the fist 3 years you are going to need at least $100m. Build brands and market the honey overseas. This will require a phenomenal long term budget just to get parity with existing major players. Can you acquire the skill set? What volume and varieties are being produced by the 113K hives. With the inherited available infrastructure is there an SQF certified production facility? Return the added-value proceeds to the producer firstly through better gate prices and finally through dividends. So by guaranteeing better gate prices and buying entire production the production/packing/marketing and sales side of the business is condemned from the start to work with an uncompetitive raw material input cost. Provide price guidance forecasts so the producer can start their season with some idea of what they will receive for their produce at the end of the season. Beekeepers working closely with packers with long term partnerships should already be having this guiding discussions.
  9. Hi Thomas Re- Your comment As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. Where is there? The point is that you have to answer questions, have a plan, formulate a business model, asset availability and management, executive personnel and structure, financial and governance structure before you get there! Without this know one can possibly know what they are being asked to investing in? this includes government and financial institutions.
  10. Co Op enthusiasts should look at the performance and changes occurring amongst the 5 or 6 largest honey producer/packers in the country before formalising a structure. The Big C situation and most recent announcements of departure and business review should be wake up call. It may not appear obvious but almost by default a Co Op structure could look very much like the current Big C structure with less of the accumulated skill base, brand recognition and market access.
  11. I totally agree. This is not a good look for a Co Op start up operation. It smacks of desperation and if anything would probably put off serious investors and banks.
  12. Only my opinion - Multiple troubles here on multiple fronts, aside from the current price pressures.
  13. I would agree Ted. Agree with all except Big C
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