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flash4cash

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Posts posted by flash4cash


  1. 3 hours ago, tony said:

    Is there research that oa gets rid of viruses?, I recieved the last results from the bee pathogen program couple days ago and I still have some very high virus loads well at least out of the group in particular dwv, and bqcv, bee weight was good at 18gm, and no mites in my samples these hives have been treated with oa/gly, not just that but it is part of my treatment. May be it needs long term exposure? I am definitely interested in what lowers virus levels, probably another topic there.

    There is a mushroom extract that can lower virus loads in bees. Sorry can not tell you more than that. Read it somewhere


  2. 7 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

     

    Very silly management.

    Sell few hives for a quarter of the price or less and there is the money for the treatment.

    I agree.  Unfortunately not everyone makes the best decisions under pressure. It easy to become overwhelmed by the whole situation they find themselves in. 

    • Like 1

  3. 10 minutes ago, CraBee said:

    Otherwise a co-op is a bit like socialism, it sounds good, but the reality is a whole lot different.

    Co Op are what you make them.  A well preforming Co Op should be hard to beat on pay out. They can be terrible as well look at fonterra, does not focus on branded products but stays with commodities.  A co op to sell bulk honey will not be a worthwhile pursuit long term. 

     

    By the sounds of things the last co op failed as people stopped supplying it to chase the any honey into manuka game. That was a rare event and unlikely to be repeated again. Rules as I have mentioned before could also stop people bailing to protect everyone. 

     

    I sure you are aware that we belong to a co op. It fantastic we love it.  Sure we have a mumble here and there about things but overall we would not leave.  I am sure you would find the same with tatua, or zespri.  Why? because when done right co op are a great thing to be a part of. 

     

    To make this point clearer.  Our main competition in the goat infant formula game is the Dutch.  They supply a brand owner on a contract basis.  Our product sell for similar prices international.  Their payout they receive for their milk is 1/3 of ours.  That is right 33c in the dollar for what we get.  Why because we are part of a co op that owns the brands. 

     

    I am not suggesting that the margin is that big in the honey game.  But it is a valid point to make. 

    • Like 2
    • Good Info 2

  4. 1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

    I need to understand this? So you buy an existing brand Airbourne or A N Other - Now what makes that brand more successful byy buying the cooperatives Honey and paying a higher price for it?

    Option 2 probably requires option 1 first - Infrastructure platform and distribution to support the NPD

     

    Now how much money do you think you need for this venture?

    The brand is was already successful.  The beekeepers are now directing and selling their honey into it.  This allows them to actually sell honey each year with certainty and receive the best price for it.  A brand owner will always want to arbitrate the difference.  Co op ownership takes away this friction. 10's of millions are required for this. 

     

    Option 2 is harder.  I could see a few pop up with time, however I think it will unlikely make it to a co op model.  This could be done with less but take vastly more time at least 2/3 years. 

     

     


  5. A co op has 2 chances of succeeding in my book.  The 1st is for a group of beekeepers to buy out and existing strong brand like Airbourne for example.  

     

    The 2nd is to become innovative with the honey.  This means the honey will be a characteristic product and not the main ingredient.  Think something like Honey water. 

     

    Neither solution is a quick fix, nor will it be cheap. If you do not have capital to contribute you are not part of the solution sorry.

     

    You do not have to own the entire brand yourself.  You can bring in a distributor partner and go halved. 

     

    Distribution is the biggest challenge to any product.  Branding is also very challenging. To be successful you need to do the 2 together.


  6. It simple Adam. They come together with a common goal and that is to create value.  They do this by forming a solid brand and extract a premium over the commodity price.  Number one rule for success in consumer products is own the brand.  Bee keepers are getting killed right now because they failed to own the brand, with the brand owner putting the cheapest honey they can find into their brand. 

    • Like 3
    • Agree 2

  7. 2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

    beekeeping if you want to go down that path is who can be in and who cant? and who decides?

     

    Well in the goat industry after the 2nd major bust was simplify who is left standing. 

     

    They then spent 5 years or so milking goats for nothing, freezing the milk and driving it to the airport so it could be sent to Ozzy to go into infant formula trails. So it sorts out thouse that are committed to the game, money or nothing. 

     

    I suspect honey industry is about to experience a similar outcome.  With the right leadership nz honey could come back strong if they are smart.  Most of us however will not be here. 

    Let me just say the bees are fun but not everything in life.  Family, friends and your health are far more important.  There is respect to anyone whom decided to move on.  

    • Like 1

  8. Sorry to keep banging on about the goat industry but it worth highlighting 2 points from their quota model.  

     

    The first is if you do not do your quota then they have the discretion to charge you 1/3 of the payout on under supply.  

     

    Second is the board have the discretion to redeem your shares for 1 cent in the dollar.  So that stops anyone trying underhanded tactics like to put cow milk in the vat. 

     

    To my knowledge neither cause has even been implemented.  But you need sticks to keep people honest and for the co op greater good. 

    • Like 4

  9. 2 hours ago, Stoney said:

    Ummm.. don’t panic flash I’m pretty sure he’s referring to scale. 

    Probably.  My theory is that if you put 100% of your hives up for treatment you are going ball deep regardless of scale. 

     

    I also love that fact he drove 2 hours from taupo to drop me off 10 strips..twice 

    19 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

     

    Hi Tony,  I tried cardboard (got them via maleme street- same supplier?) 

    Thought them pretty average- I trialed a site, 8 cards per hive and now full of those devils.  Feel that the card i used was a bit thick? Like the ox wasn't been distributed very well, maybe held in the card too long?  I can still taste the ox months later.  The gib have a larger surface area, and possibly release the ox much quicker (probably why you see bee death at first) 

     You still interested in some Formic?  

    I reckon they worked it was all I used last season for Autumn and did not even do a spring treatment. 

    • Like 1

  10. On 9/03/2019 at 1:07 PM, Philbee said:

     

    I commend your courage Paul

    Few on this form could even imagine the what you and James put on the line this season.
      

    Awe what about me?  You dropped of the thins and I asked what is the the success rate?

     

    Philbee  replys " not sure you are the 1st customer, tell me how they go" 

    • Haha 1

  11. 4 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

    So a $2.00per kg levy is better in your books, Im happy with that.

    $2 million is hell of a lot better than $20

    Who was the major benefactor of the last round of industry funded research?

     

    MANUKA 

     

    Who can afford it right now?

     

    MANUKA...

     

    Milk that cow. If you consider it fair that 10 cent per kg on $4 honey then this is 2.5%. Applying the same logic yet this time only to mono manuka and multi then you could easily raise your $20 million ($30 kg average assumption) apply it at export point and you will capture 9,500 tons this way. So roughly half of all honey produced. 

     

    Let's assume a more palatable 50 cents per kg then you would have just under $5 million (on total mono manuka and multi exports of $275 million). Or 1.67%

     

    2.5 x your $2 million  and 10 x more fair.

     

    All the money raised should go into non manuka market development.  Then we can all afford to contribute to a levy..then we will have a strong and balanced industry. 

     

    **these numbers are just a best guest from memory of nz honey export and average price**

     

    The principle remains the same.  And everyone gets a say. 1 shareholder 1 vote regardless of size or honey produced. 

    • Disagree 1

  12. The levy money is chump change, $2 million...that will not go far.  Even with the government matching some of the research funding.  You get sweet F all for 1/2 million in research dollars. 

     

    It is the control of the industry that is the real prize, the rights to write the rules. That is what the big boys are after.  

    • Agree 5
    • Disagree 1

  13. On 3/03/2019 at 8:57 PM, Beeman1 said:

    Yep the small guy wants the same vote as a big guys but wants the big guys to pay more lol

    So that thinking everyone with one hive gets one vote as a guys with 4000 hives get one vote as well  that's going to work not 

    That guys with more to lose should have more votes per hive  and pay more in my books that's fair .

     

     

    If your livelihood is on the line then it does not matter how many hive you have you are still in the same boat.  Our goat farm is the 2nd biggest producer in terms of milk solids and the lady down the road is the 2nd smallest.  We both get the same vote at a meeting.  If we want change then we have to convince her it is worth it, and not going to disadvantage her business.  Because at the end of the day the big boys will use their power to get there way.  We do all the time. So it has to be 1 person one vote or the big boy will screw the little people. 

    • Like 1
    • Agree 2
    • Good Info 1

  14. 11 hours ago, Philbee said:

    My experience has been that there is no entity more productive and competitive than a band of self determining owner operators, in other words a Co-op

    The big guys will never have it all their own way and you can take that to the Bank

    You are being to näive.  Everybody would love to only have half the hives in NZ. They just want everyone else to be the one to take the hit.  The bigs boys get that way because they are aggressive.  If they can use compliance cost to crush their competition they will. Look at the board members there are the big players on there.  They would love to crush the small players and remove them from the market, more money for them.  

    • Agree 5

  15. What  i think Ali is trying to say is that while we appricated the reasearch and science side of things..it feels like that is the decoy to a side agenda of control of the bee industry in nz by this organisation. One area I find interesting is market access.

     

    So it could used by speical interest group to reduce competition by making the complicant cost if producing honey so complex and expensive that small operators can not compete. 

    • Like 1
    • Agree 1

  16. 7 hours ago, BRB said:

     

    I don't know how you experienced guys know if there is a flow on or not.

     

    Take out a few frames with wet honey in them and shake it horizontally onto a lid.  If nectar fails out then it was collected in the past day or so.  

    • Like 2

  17. I have had quite a few hive swarm on me in January.  Took my eye off them for a few weeks and bam.  I expected that once i was past the longest day i would be ok.  I wonder whether the philbee staples mid season treatment contributed to this ? however I think it more a case of just running bees in doubles that got me...ran out of boxes 

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