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Rob's BP

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Everything posted by Rob's BP

  1. Re. the market, there has been a significant increase in demand for Manuka, and not at discounted prices, so yes it's still being demanded and paid for as a Giffen Good. Re. your vehicles comment, do you buy $100-200 honey (for 250g)? If not, then you're not one of the Manuka consumers I was describing, which may be reflected in your car choices
  2. Yep, and a whole lot of other assurances/perceptions/assumptions including, but not limited to, trust, desire, safety, performance, bestowed status, and self fulfillment. To apply it to the auto market as a comparison: say everyone can buy the cheapest car, most with a lot of misgivings, but at least it's functional as a car; whereas most would buy a far more expensive (better?) car if they could for various reasons. Well the great thing about honey is that many, many, many people can buy the most expensive honey. When your house(s) are worth >$1m each, your cars are worth >$100k etc. what's $100-200 when it confers all those superior connetations? Chump change that's what, if you've got it, why would you buy one of the cheaper products available. Manuka honey is an example of a Giffen Good.
  3. Really? Have you done a market survey to come up with this belief? Comvita is not only the biggest but also the most expensive. And (this may be very contrary to your thinking/may be controversial) yes a lot of Comvita's consumers buy it partly because it is the most expensive.
  4. Seems you're extrapolating your own thoughts and behaviour onto your target consumers rather than researching them and understanding their motivation and behaviour. Re. "And if it’s made by a small family business rather than a big company then that’s even better." if that was a widely held motivator, then why is the reality the opposite i.e. the biggest brands are just that, the biggest, while as you said it family businesses are small. The point being that consumers have responded and choose to purchase not the small family business' products but rather the large firms'. Maybe we should learn from the successful/large firms and emulate the good points of what they do, rather than emulate the smallest?
  5. In response to the above quote, and several others like it in the thread: Most temperate countries, particularly western countries, produce Clover honey, which like ours can be light colour with high pollen content. We have very little reason for value add. When a consumer is viewing Clover honey products from NZ, Canada, Switzerland etc. they won't pay significantly more for NZ sourced, irrespective of what we would like them to see... Also in response to Bron's comment: "Some of our honeys are only found in NZ such as our mono floral native honeys and our multi floral bush blends. Positives that I see are We don’t use anti-biotic for AFB. We don’t import any honey into NZ (other than from some of the islands) We are geographically isolated. Can in most cases create a really great “story” about small generational family businesses." Many countries have honeys that are only found there. Sorry exclusive source is not a significant reason for consumers to pay a premium. Many, many brands throughout the world create a really great “story” about small generational family businesses. This is not a significant reason for consumers to pay a premium The other reasons mentioned are already included in demand pricing for NZ honeys, we won't get much additional pricing from them. Sorry if this post seems excessively negative. What the factors I've seen listed tend to have in common is that they are seen from the producer's perspective. What I'm trying to introduce is to see things from the buyer's perspective. Consumers are motivated more from 'what benefit can I get from this purchase' than 'what production factors went into this product'.
  6. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=12319909
  7. Yeah, he used to plow and plant comfrey along the road side edges until told/made to stop. What a character!
  8. Yes, and was there mention of them opening a replacement plant in NZ? All that was said was a very cryptic "Baskin said all opportunities would be explored to ensure a propolis supply chain" Could it be their South American plant is their best production option?
  9. Hi Gino, the glib answer is it's worth what a willing seller and buyer agree on. I deal in finished products, not bulk product so not a lot of help with your question. Re. Aussie fires...hmm, we'll see. How much of their 'Manuka' areas are affected? Their best areas are around the NSW/QLD border. Also, since Manuka is one of the first trees to re-generate, it could lead to more quantity once the fire areas have regenerated and the trees matured
  10. Yes, so one company, at least, is happy to supply at that price. The question is are they the only one? Or are there others, as much of this thread indicates, who are sitting on mountains of honey, but not willing to sell for what is effectively >$200/kg wholesale
  11. Customer is currently paying $52 for UMF 22 250g packed and compliant with export & import requirements. Currently sharing a brand with the importer, and having channel price conflict. So wants exclusivity for their country. Interested to hear from anyone who can/is motivated enough to match that.
  12. I've been looking for very high NPA mono recently, but for all the mountain sitting in sheds, they still want $160-180/kg or it'll keep sitting in their sheds...
  13. Good to see they have the money to fund their R&D, product development, and to protect it legally to stop competitors copying/ripping them off, selling for cheaper, devaluing the product and reputation...the parallels highlight the weaknesses in our industry
  14. Hi Chris, anyone reading the data needs to also calculate the amount of NZ honey moved offshore by non official exports i.e. daigou trade and handcarried by tourists. My experience and what I've seen is that the non official exports are far more volume than what is sold and consumed in NZ. Therefore NZ consumption is much less than 2.2kg per person.
  15. Perhaps the fact they've got up and out of here indicates they have above average ambition and motivation. And there's often no welfare system for foreigners to fall back on. Immigrants around the world tend to be hard working, making a new and better life for them and their families. Hence the phrases "working like a Dutchman" and more recently heard "working like an Indian".
  16. Never has. "If the supermarket does not stock it then they lose sales." Well the NZ supermarkets don't stock Comvita, and yet PNS etc are doing fine. Meanwhile Comvita isn't. What does that say about who has the power? Yes, some international customers want Comvita, not Bob's manuka, but there are plenty of others who want a lower priced brand of Manuka too. Those lower priced brands largely ride the coattails of the awareness and premium perception Comvita (and others, but Comvita more than any other) has created. There are complimentary synergies and other benefits from vertical integration. E.g. they know and control all aspects of the honey's origin, production, quality, inputs and timing of supply. To take one of these points that is seldom appreciated, timing of supply: it's pretty frustrating and inefficient to have a multi-million $ facility, and a whole bunch of staff employed who have little/nothing to do at times, and the flow on effects of out of stocks to the customers and export markets because independent suppliers supply according to their preferred schedules, not C's production requirements. And then there are other times when they have to work double shifts, pay overtime, need extra storage space etc.
  17. This seems very much to be looking over the fence and saying the grass is greener. Or looking up the vertical integration line and saying the next step up makes more money than me. And that is without knowing and/or underestimating the costs, risks, knowledge, time and $ investment required. So many NZ beekeepers, made wealthy over ~20-5 years ago, looked enviously at the packers/marketers and said "I can do that too. Why should they make the big $ from my honey" So they "invested" in a packing plant and/or their own labels and tried to DIY it...how many of these many beekeeper brands have become or ever looked like becoming the next Comvita or Manuka Health (the so-called most powerful players in the game)? The brand owner is not the most powerful player in the game. The supermarkets are. They have the pick of the dozens or hundreds of brands begging for the privilege of getting on those shelves, and can dictate prices to them. They have the lowest risk levels: if one or many doesn't work, there are plenty others to take their place; even if the whole category doesn't work, it is balanced by all the other categories. I've seen some of these smaller, less costly approaches. How could they be less costly? Let's see: by cutting corners, not doing what they were obligated to do, yes some had dodgy practices, and many if not all don't count the real and total costs of their inputs. None of these are recipes for long term success, and are not scalable or sustainable. The way to be less costly production has been indicated in the Chicken industry discussion above @Ted: huge volume utilization of fixed cost capital asssets, minimal labour and variable cost inputs, high levels of automation, virtually guaranteed demand and minimal time spent on sales/marketing, just concentrate on and do what you're best at... Re. "more profitable": While in theory there could be a profitable neiche somewhere, but in reality NZ honey products are very easily imitated (by others in the NZ honey industry), so a neiche doesn't remain profitable for long.
  18. There is no way kiwis can match their productivity, volume or costs. Have seen several try to make RJ here, and costs were many, many times higher priced than imported product, and volumes tiny.
  19. Hmm, they probably feel the same way i.e. they would buy your NZ propolis if you matched your competition. Pot/Kettle? The owner of a major NZ natural products company told me their Propolis is a blend of NZ and foreign [Chinese] propolis. The NZ component was what came from the hive in his garden!
  20. I said "we can reasonably expect they'd be similarly stringent with Propolis" not that their honey and propolis import standards are similar. Buyers should know it's imported from elsewhere, it's clearly stated on pack. Refer to the first line in the image below.
  21. Mate, I have very good knowledge of what NZ's propolis supply was some years back, and it was much less than the 20MT reported to have been recently imported. There's no way Comvita could get that much Propolis from NZ . Since they have the demand, and a legal method of supplying the demand, with quality assurance they've done so. Note, Comvita's quality standard must be very high since it's not hard to figure a lot of it will be going to China, and we know China has some of the most stringent quality standards for importing honey so we can reasonably expect they'd be similarly stringent with Propolis. So, we can be assured they're not importing dirty/dodgy/contaminated product to NZ.
  22. OK @Ted mentioned it later in the thread. Good on you Ted. It's the truth, but seems unpopular among this crowd. @Daley what they are doing is completely legal. If you don't like that go and complain to the regulators - oh and you'll need scientific evidence i.e. proof, not just your negativity and anamosity. Also, they've been importing for >10 years with no reported issues. And now they've bought into the supplier, so can have more influence over the harvesting, storage, processing etc. that happens there. The point of which is they now have greater control over product quality and safety.
  23. Simple answer that so far no one has mentioned: NZ doesn't produce enough propolis to fill the consumer demand. You can't fault Comvita for that, but it seems plenty here will. Comvita's honey business has been propped up by it's Propolis business. Imagine what the losses would have been if it was solely reliant on it's loss making honey business. And yes, Comvita has done a heck of a lot for those in this industry, but all it receives on this forum is negativity
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