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Posts posted by Pinnacle

  1. 7 minutes ago, Grant said:


    you sure do 😁

    There is one from busy as an example but please make it as glamorous as you need. Hopefully because you've had a go on your own sites you 'll be a good representative site. 

    renew every 4 weeks to ensure you are still around etc.

    The external website link field won’t work, I enter my website in there and it doesn’t seem to recognise it as a valid URL. The rest works ok

  2. Hi,


    I havent really been following this thread, but I guess I should seeing as I keep getting mentioned 😂


    for anyone who is interested, our story is pretty predictable - didn’t like the idea of $3.50 (or not selling at all) so took a deep breath and packed some off. We’ve had a couple of label changes, use social media marketing and have built an online shopping platform. Current biggest issues are packaging - no one likes plastic - and freight costs - honey is heavy. It’s been an interesting journey so far and have learned heaps, yes it is hard work moving retail packs but it beats being at the mercy of someone else. We have a low overhead business so whatever value we can extract at the the retail end rewards us quite nicely. But it takes constant attention and trying new approaches. I happen to have married a PR/marketing guru and have an interest in that myself - not all beekeepers will.


    and @ChrisM - you’re right about the bright pink - it is purely to get attention. Seems to have worked on you 😁

    • Like 3
  3. Meh - it looks to me like they’ve seen an opportunity and are now trying to fit a story to it, by #######ising the science and throwing red herrings into the mix. Not an unusual business approach Unfortunately.

    • Agree 2
  4. 15 minutes ago, The Frasers said:

    We found a horticultural tree-tie tape that we were trying out as a way of exposing the oxalic juice to the bees last year. It is a vegetable fibre weave with a black stripe down the center and 50mm wide, sold in a roll. It stayed moist and wasn't chewed as towels were.

    Interesting thanks - did you soak it on the roll, or cut into strips then soak? Cheers

  5. @Maggie James I agree - a few know it alls on here tend to shoot down very sensible questions rather than engage with the people asking them. I imagine Grant has some interesting data on visitors or readers or members vs “commenters” and the commenters would be a very small group.



    • Agree 3
  6. 29 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

    Over the last month, if there was an emoji to use pulling their hair out, I would have clicked on it a number of times!  


    Or maybe there could be a emoji peace sign which alludes to Make Love Not War!

    Heaven help us if men had to endure PMT and menopause.

    I did have a look through the list to see if there was a dramatic eye roll but unfortunately no 

    • Haha 3
  7. 4 hours ago, Don Mac said:


    @Jamo, your comment about the population drop of bees in your hives prompted my memory about a fact about Movento.

    Movento was approved by ERMA (now the EPA back in 2008) - see decision HSR07115 https://www.epa.govt.nz/database-search/hsno-application-register/view/HSR07115

    It was widely used during flowering of Kiwifruit and beekeepers noted severe population drops of their hives. These were documented by Dr John McLean.

    In 2012, the NBA Tech Committee applied for a reassessment of Movento. based on Bayer's application data.


    The guts of the grounds for this reassessment application was this;

    "The original ERMA approval (HSR007693) decision completely overlooked Bayer’s Terrestrial invertebrate ecotoxicity rating of 9.4B as detailed in application HSR07115.


    “The difference between the Agency’s and the applicant’s assessment of reproductive/developmental toxicity is due to differing interpretations of the available data.  The applicant’s derivation of the 9.4B classification is unclear as the Agency based on formulation data on bees provided by the applicant”. (Application HSR07115)


    The National Beekeepers Association Technical Committee (NBA TC) contends that for a systemic insecticide, the Agency’s interpretation was in serious error on the basis that while tests of the forager bees showed a high tolerance for Movento®, LD50 contact = >100ug ai/bee (p37 of 127 HSR07115) Bayer rightly reported (p. 38 of 127 HSR07115) “an almost total termination of brood development 4 days after the start of feeding”.  This means that a whole cohort of bee production is lost, i.e. 7 weeks later this failed brood should have been at the forager stage but they are simply not there to gather honey.  The Agency was in serious error to ignore this important information."



    Our concern was that ERMA had made an incorrect risk analysis of effects on bees in the original approval - and that opinion still stands as the EPA approved our grounds for reassessment. Dr McLean gathered data In 2008 bee safety was determined by effects of the pesticide on adult bees, not brood. This showed a decline in beehive strength to about 40%  of what was in the hive at the start of pollination. We did not proceed with a push for the reassessment, because it was about 2013 when Zespri made a push for NO SPRAYING during FLOWERING on KIwifruit. Plus it could have cost the NBA a lot of money back then - taking on Bayer could have been a huge challenge.                                                                              Problem solved we thought then @Jamo came along and clearly you have experienced an orchardist spraying during flowering.

    The hive losses you experienced are significant. @Jamo have you reported these hive losses to Zespri? They have active customers overseas who wish to see no harm to bees used for pollination of the fruit they buy. Have you reported this as a pollinator incident to the EPA?

    The Apiculture NZ Science & Research Focus Group relies on accurate reports from beekeepers so that we can assist beekeepers. How widespread have Movento applications been during flowering this season? Has scale been a problem in Kiwifruit this season?  @Jamo you are at the coalface in your area, you need to know what is happening and noting it down.   We do not have any research funding, so have total reliance on accurate beekeeper reports for us to work on beekeeper concerns.  We can resurrect the EPA reassessment of Movento if use of this product has been widespread in orchards this season during flowering, but need accurate data and reporting from beekeepers.  We may need to talk to Zespri about a change in spraying policy - to permit more spraying during flowering. To do so requires more data from you the beekeeper.

    Contact me by email if you have to Don MacLeod c/-      info@apinz.org.nz  and I will get back to you.

    Hive management is all about measuring hive performance, monitoring the environment where your bees are and communication with the growers and others in the industry, including beekeepers. Doing nothing is a recipe for self imposed torture and eventual failure.

    Pollinating kiwifruit is tough on hives, adding insecticides to the mixture makes a bees life a lot tougher. Some beekeepers swap out hives every 10 to 21 days to keep hive strength high. That is the first hives placed in the orchard are replaced with fresh hives - this reduces hive losses, spells hives from the effects of the orchard for honey gathering after pollination.   Speak to @Dennis Crowley  as he has a huge amount of experience in Kiwifruit pollination and is the go to man for Apiculture NZ re Zespri.



    Don I’m not sure this was sprayed “during flowering”. Jamo said the bees went in 4 days after application - which suggests pre-flower application.  Some clarification would be good.


    remember the reduction in bees could just have easily been whatever the neighbour was up to, or whatever the guy over the road sprayed. We’ve pollinated kiwifruit for several years around the pre-flower use of these products and I haven't seen an issue.


    of course if they were indeed applied on open flowers, that would be a different issue.

    • Agree 1
  8. From memory they all have to be used before kiwifruit flowering starts. Recommend the orchard is mown first so the sward is not flowering also.


    these chemicals themselves are not particularly dangerous to bees.

    there will be bee safety statements on each label - these labels can be accessed on the acvm website. However the restriction on before flowering use only is mandated by Zespri 



    • Agree 1
  9. @Alastair for what it's worth, a couple of comments about our hives (have found staples effective and safe).


    1) haven't put staples in wet.  Don't care if they've got crystals on them, but we haven't put them in wet.


    2) we're heavily involved in pollination - started in July in summerfruit, still going now in kiwifruit.  Relevance is that they're always on a nectar flow of some sort and when they're not, we're feeding syrup to maintain hive strength.  That might support your thoughts about stores vs fresh nectar.


    3) we've got all hive doctor vented floors and dampness in the hive is never an issue.


    @CraBee I have to admit to some nervousness after reading all the above on autumn treatments and have been thinking similar to you - maybe apivar.



    • Like 1
    • Good Info 1
  10. Ted I'm sorry, but I disagree.


    As others have stated, this is very much an early trial product and we're all playing and learning to use it.  While Phil has supplied laminated strips - at the behest of others I might add - he has been clear that they're for trial.


    I doubt that Phil has somehow made a stack of cash out of this so far. I think if he took his time, hive losses, machinery development etc into account he still be in the red (my assumption).


    if someone asked me to go on a "road trip" at this time of year, with hives at full rip, moves going on, treatments in and out, honey flow starting etc I would be telling them "no way".  


    Again - this is a trial product. Perhaps those that have gone 100% hell for leather across all of their hives and completely changed their varroa management overnight with an unproven product, should be looking at their own decisions, not someone else's.  Take some personal responsibility.

    • Like 3
    • Agree 1
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