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jamesc

polystyrene nucs

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I've nearly decided to order some of these 3/4 boxes....

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37 minutes ago, Philbee said:

The problem is that the walls have lugs on the lower edge as do the ends.

A box that supers needs to have flat lower edges which would then need to be strapped down to a flat base

Nah.  Just transfer the frames into another base.  Not every NUC needs to super

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

The problem is that the walls have lugs on the lower edge as do the ends.

A box that supers needs to have flat lower edges which would then need to be strapped down to a flat base

I think @Trevor Gillbanks is suggesting a 3/4 nuc with integral base and a separate 3/4 super without base.

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14 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

I think @Trevor Gillbanks is suggesting a 3/4 nuc with integral base and a separate 3/4 super without base.

Well thats easy enough but remember that the top bee space of the nuc is 10mm (flat lid no mat) and the bottom bee space in theory of the super would be 25mm thats a total of 35mm unless the supers were made lower so that the bottom bars are flush with the lower edge of the box to share the lower box bee space

Edited by Philbee

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39 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Well thats easy enough but remember that the top bee space of the nuc is 10mm (flat lid no mat) and the bottom bee space in theory of the super would be 25mm thats a total of 35mm unless the supers were made lower so that the bottom bars are flush with the lower edge of the box to share the lower box bee space

Yes.  Make the bottom of the bars flush.  That will maintain bee space.

It does not matter that standard langstroth NZ has bottom space.  These will not be interchangeable.

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I couldn't help myself.

 

@Philbee fewer lugs means you can spin the end piece to fit between the lugs on the sides. Still loads of surface area for glue and a positive fit in all dimensions. Three x five frame NUCS fit nicely across the sheet with 5mm spacing between parts. I've left 20mm between the bottom of the frame and the base for @Alastair. The telescoping lid is 20mm overhang with 18mm sides so fairly snug.

 

The long dimension presumes that the frame rest will be rebated into the end piece. Two options.

  • Cut the rebate on a table saw and glue a plastic strip to the cut edge. Possibly a plastic extrusion intended for hard board.
  • Or rig a hot knife to a fence and run the parts through. It will take a few goes to get the temperature and speed correct but the end result would be a neat, semi-sealed finish.

 

Dimensions.PNG.866df2dccecd53790964e241ef8c60bb.PNGFullSheet.thumb.PNG.920bcf9fe6145cbacc5900de7c0e73e9.PNG

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11 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

I couldn't help myself.

 

@Philbee fewer lugs means you can spin the end piece to fit between the lugs on the sides. Still loads of surface area for glue and a positive fit in all dimensions. Three x five frame NUCS fit nicely across the sheet with 5mm spacing between parts. I've left 20mm between the bottom of the frame and the base for @Alastair. The telescoping lid is 20mm overhang with 18mm sides so fairly snug.

 

The long dimension presumes that the frame rest will be rebated into the end piece. Two options.

  • Cut the rebate on a table saw and glue a plastic strip to the cut edge. Possibly a plastic extrusion intended for hard board.
  • Or rig a hot knife to a fence and run the parts through. It will take a few goes to get the temperature and speed correct but the end result would be a neat, semi-sealed finish.

 

Dimensions.PNG.866df2dccecd53790964e241ef8c60bb.PNGFullSheet.thumb.PNG.920bcf9fe6145cbacc5900de7c0e73e9.PNG

That looks good.

It looks like inside measurement is 180mm

that is 5 frames?? 

5 frames plus feeder needs 214mm.

Ive used an extra packer to do the rebate for simplicity as a hot knief will be limiting for some folk and a saw ruins the texture of the poly as well as being beyond some beeks.

I think 2mm clearance on the perimeter may be too tight, 5mm maybe???

 

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9 minutes ago, Philbee said:

That looks good.

It looks like inside measurement is 180mm

that is 5 frames?? 

5 frames plus feeder needs 214mm.

Ive used an extra packer to do the rebate for simplicity as a hot knief will be limiting for some folk and a saw ruins the texture of the poly as well as being beyond some beeks.

I think 2mm clearance on the perimeter may be too tight, 5mm maybe???

 

Yes five frames is what I use so that's where i started.  lid clearance is 2mm all around so 4mm slop. 

 

I see what you mean now about the simplicity of the packers. That would add 60mm width to the pattern which might just fit. 

 

Thinking laterally, how well does HD poly cut with a sharp box cutter against a steel ruler? Might produce a half decent rebate?

 

I also went with no top bee space.

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4 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

Thinking laterally, how well does HD poly cut with a sharp box cutter against a steel ruler? Might produce a half decent rebate?

Possibly

I think the heat seals the cut well though.

The reason I questioned 2mm is because on paper all things work better than "as built"

 it could be destructive to the lid if it was wedged on and off  repetitively??

The reason Ive used 214 is that various members suggested it and it gives options, however at a cost probably

 

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What about an American style lid with front and rear overhang and flush sides? It would stack well.

 

There is plenty space to increase clearance on telescoping lid.

 

There's probably as many variations as there are beekeepers. I'll have a play with 214 tomorrow but, like you say, there won't be  as many per sheet. 

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8 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

What about an American style lid with front and rear overhang and flush sides? It would stack well.

 

There is plenty space to increase clearance on telescoping lid.

 

There's probably as many variations as there are beekeepers. I'll have a play with 214 tomorrow but, like you say, there won't be  as many per sheet. 

There is a better way to nest and that is to allocate entire sheets to a single component then fill in any left over space with another component.

Having said this one should be mindful that the profile cutting Co will possibly happily use your efficiencies and pocket the loot 

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Is not 180mm too small for 5 frames? 185mm looks better - combs are not always slim.

 

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Just now, Kiwi Bee said:

Is not 180mm too small for 5 frames? 185mm looks better - combs are not always slim.

 

5x 33 equal 165 plus 15 slop

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8 hours ago, Rob Stockley said:

Thinking laterally, how well does HD poly cut with a sharp box cutter against a steel ruler? Might produce a half decent rebate?

Less than half decent I suggest.  You'd get a bit of the way then encounter a rip out.....Separate packer the way to go. PVC wallboard mouldings are not particularly

cheap.

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Ive had some interesting conversations with various suppliers last couple of days.

Turns out its all doable in 28kg/m3 poly using a hot wire 

However Im waiting on a price from a CNC routing company who can rout the rebate and use any density poly we require.

They could plunge rout the lid also

He goes up to 200kg/m3 but thats an overkill.

It will all come back to price.

Ive asked the hot wire co if they could cut a sample

Edited by Philbee
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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Ive had some interesting conversations with various suppliers last couple of days.

Turns out its all doable in 28kg/m3 poly using a hot wire 

However Im waiting on a price from a CNC routing company who can rout the rebate and use any density poly we require.

They could plunge rout the lid also

He goes up to 200kg/m3 but thats an overkill.

It will all come back to price.

Ive asked the hot wire co if they could cut a sample

 

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I wonder about a plain flat slab for a lid secured in place laterally with a couple of galv 100mm nails just pushed through. Leave enough sticking out to grab, or if stacking burrow enough poly out around them to enable grabbing them while still a flush top

Edited by yesbut

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On 8/23/2017 at 7:49 PM, yesbut said:

I wonder about a plain flat slab for a lid secured in place laterally with a couple of galv 100mm nails just pushed through. Leave enough sticking out to grab, or if stacking burrow enough poly out around them to enable grabbing them while still a flush top

I wondered the same and use a Duct tape long hinge. 

Im now waiting for a Styrobeck to supply a prototype 

Even my slowest hive works faster than these guys

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Or you could just raise your nukes in standard full depth boxes like I do.

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48 minutes ago, john berry said:

Or you could just raise your nukes in standard full depth boxes like I do.

i think i read that you just put the brood etc in the middle and put frames on the outside.

are these drawn frames and are the boxes put somewhere esp warm.

it would be very convenient to raise nucs in standard boxes.

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To be fair I generally only make nukes to use up excess brood and bees from hives that might otherwise swarm. I would normally have four or five frames of bees and brood +2 frames of honey and fill the rest up with drawn combs. I would also use 10 day cells rather than the two day cells I use in autumn. Once the Queen is laying I generally add more brood and bees and make them up to full production hives or if I have some spare I occasionally sell them to beekeepers I trust. This year I might even paper some on to make some two Queen apiarys. What I don't want is hive creep where your numbers just keep increasing by magic.

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35 minutes ago, john berry said:

To be fair I generally only make nukes to use up excess brood and bees from hives that might otherwise swarm.

At last you tell us what you do with the proceeds of your favourite swarm prevention technique . Thank you !

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6 hours ago, john berry said:

To be fair I generally only make nukes to use up excess brood and bees from hives that might otherwise swarm. I would normally have four or five frames of bees and brood +2 frames of honey and fill the rest up with drawn combs. I would also use 10 day cells rather than the two day cells I use in autumn. Once the Queen is laying I generally add more brood and bees and make them up to full production hives or if I have some spare I occasionally sell them to beekeepers I trust. This year I might even paper some on to make some two Queen apiarys. What I don't want is hive creep where your numbers just keep increasing by magic.

I am worried about hive creep too.

I could easily end up like @Rob Stockley

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

I am worried about hive creep too.

I could easily end up like @Rob Stockley

Fair call. I am hive creep 9_9

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On 8/23/2017 at 7:49 PM, yesbut said:

I wonder about a plain flat slab for a lid secured in place laterally with a couple of galv 100mm nails just pushed through. Leave enough sticking out to grab, or if stacking burrow enough poly out around them to enable grabbing them while still a flush top

I wondered the same and use a Duct tape long hinge. 

 

Samples being cut and couriered today

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