Jump to content
jamesc

polystyrene nucs

Recommended Posts

If the wire cutter is thin enough they could easily jigsaw cut all the components if optimising the sheet is a problem and would create less waste, it also be a quicker process to cut it out as in most cases 1 cut would equate to two component edges (hopefully you can understand what I mean)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, dansar said:

If the wire cutter is thin enough they could easily jigsaw cut all the components if optimising the sheet is a problem and would create less waste, it also be a quicker process to cut it out as in most cases 1 cut would equate to two component edges (hopefully you can understand what I mean)

Yes and no

The way the machine works when cutting profiles it needs to cut each shape from within it a full sheet.

It cant decipher where an existing cut edge is.

Ive just nested each component on its own full sheet and the result is 2.85 Nucs per sheet

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Philbee said:

Yes and no

The way the machine works when cutting profiles it needs to cut each shape from within it a full sheet.

It cant decipher where an existing cut edge is.

Ive just nested each component on its own full sheet and the result is 2.85 Nucs per sheet

 

But if it is only cutting once, as dansar suggested, then why would it need to know where an existing cut edge is? It just cuts the whole thing out (?).

The D. Coates 5 frame Nuc boxes have a free download pdf of the plans on Beesource and you get four FD boxes out of one sheet. 

Using a male assembly jig to put the boxes together upside down, I'd back myself to build them fast with glue and staple gun, then slide off the male internal shape.

What is material cost of a sheet of high density polystyrene compared to wood, roughly speaking?

I've been using draftsight for years (I started with autocad in late 80's but ditched autocad years ago when they lost the plot).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChrisM said:

It just cuts the whole thing out (?).

Its difficult to know if we are all on the same page in this regard.

The machine must cut the whole thing out and leave a 5mm waffer between compontents.

When using the previously cut edge of one component as a start for the next component, any thermal or other movement in the material immediately shows up as an error in the measurements of the last component.


I would wager that The poly boxes are faster to assemble and cheaper to produce than the ply boxes by a significant margin.

For a start poly is less expensive than ply, its also insulating and the CNC process means that it is cut to perfect measurements repeatably.

The price is not far away as Ive just answered a question from the supplier.

These are planned at 40mm Very Hard (VH)  Poly.

The only reason I havent had lots made for myself is that Id already made all mine by the time this idea came up.

Also I tend to cart boxes around on a trailer and they do get a hard time.

These poly boxes would require much more care, especially when load binding down 

 

Edited by Philbee
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Philbee Please, Would it be possible to make a pattern for me that is 6 x 3/4 frames with 25mm space below the frames.

I like 5 frame nuc's with internal frame feeder.  

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Its difficult to know if we are all on the same page in this regard.

The machine must cut the whole thing out and leave a 5mm waffer between compontents.

When using the previously cut edge of one component as a start for the next component, any thermal or other movement in the material immediately shows up as an error in the measurements of the last component.


I would wager that The poly boxes are faster to assemble and cheaper to produce than the ply boxes by a significant margin.

For a start poly is less expensive than ply, its also insulating and the CNC process means that it is cut to perfect measurements repeatably.

The price is not far away as Ive just answered a question from the supplier.

These are planned at 40mm Very Hard (VH)  Poly.

The only reason I havent had lots made for myself is that Id already made all mine by the time this idea came up.

Also I tend to cart boxes around on a trailer and they do get a hard time.

These poly boxes would require much more care, especially when load binding down 

 

 

three seasons ago I made 9 of the D Coates boxes, 5 bars. I made them jumbo depth from 300mm x 27mm r/s u/t pine boxing. These are heavy and robust and I don't move them much, nor would you wish to. These have been good, stacked checkerboarded facing opposite directions forms a solid brick of 8 hives that might help keep each other warm and is easily to cover with my roofs.  I adjusted the Coates design for thicker material and jumbo depth.

 

It would be attractive to me, to make some the same way with the Coates design, but using 40mm VH Poly you've told us about, but I don't have volumes for CNC. Whether I used 5, 6, 8 or 10 'frames' is a separate issue. I imagine the VH poly saws well compared to the Low Density version. 

 

As things have levelled out, I don't need to produce many more Nuc's, but I'm growing keener on a few mini-mating nuc's in poly's for a supply of backup queens. The poly mini mating nuc's I have seen appear to be moulded low density polystyrene with an inbuilt feeder and seem to be just fine provided you keep on top of feeding, keep on top of wasps.

 

A few more ten comb Nuc boxes in VH poly would be a warmer proposition over winter in the nuc apiary, so that I can save the more robust 10 comb, 27mm wood hiveware, spare for putting swarms into.

 

I understand what you are saying about the 5mm wafer ; if the direction and sequence of the CNC path can't be controlled. But/however if you can control the order of cutting, then you don't need the wafer; if at least one of the parts being cut are attached to the rest of the sheet. This is the point I think others were trying to make also.

 

So anyway, the 40mm VH poly seems cheap, light and a good material for conserving heat over winter. Does anyone know a source in Tauranga? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Building supply outfits eg Placemakers sell a subfloor grade, don't know the hardness..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, yesbut said:

Building supply outfits eg Placemakers sell a subfloor grade, don't know the hardness..

its thick and crumbly and expensive, if you mean the poly stuff we have just used under a floor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

@Philbee Please, Would it be possible to make a pattern for me that is 6 x 3/4 frames with 25mm space below the frames.

I like 5 frame nuc's with internal frame feeder.  

 

Thanks

Ive sent the files to the supplier and have tidied various issues up.

The files being priced are for FD 6 frame 214 Inside measurement.

The 3/4 nuc price will likely be very similar and is only a matter of shortening the end and side outlines.

You had better check that 5 frames plus a feeder will fit in 214mm.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still finding my way around this new setup so forgive me if its already been discussed but what are peoples thoughts regarding ventilation in these poly nucs. I know a beekeeper with significant experience with the poly nuc from ecrotek who says they are good through winter but can be problematic as the weather warms up and the colonies get bigger. He feels that they need more ventilation. In the old days I often used some very small timber mini nucs that had limited ventilation and they were fine early in the season but once you got to warmer weather in late oct / early nov many of them would abscond. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jamo said:

I am still finding my way around this new setup so forgive me if its already been discussed but what are peoples thoughts regarding ventilation in these poly nucs. I know a beekeeper with significant experience with the poly nuc from ecrotek who says they are good through winter but can be problematic as the weather warms up and the colonies get bigger. He feels that they need more ventilation. In the old days I often used some very small timber mini nucs that had limited ventilation and they were fine early in the season but once you got to warmer weather in late oct / early nov many of them would abscond. 

Probably a few separate issues here.

Ive seen the same thing in very small mini nucs (timber)

Ill never make another mini nuc again and the only reason ill use large Mini nucs is Im stuck with about  200 of them.
I definitely wont be drawing up any mini nucs as part of this project.

Ive never hesitated to drill holes in any of my gear if required.
My 3 frame FD mating nucs that go very well usually have a vent at each end between the box and the mat.
About 4mm x 20mm at each end.

Poly can easily be modified in the field.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Philbee said:


My 3 frame FD mating nucs that go very well usually have a vent at each end between the box and the mat.
About 4mm x 20mm at each end.

 

 

How do you stop the bees chewing at the vents and turning them into extra entrances? Also what are your views regarding end ventilation vs bottom ventilation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jamo said:

Also what are your views regarding end ventilation vs bottom ventilation?

Bottom ventilation is very easy, aged elastic takes care of it :ph34r:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Jamo said:

How do you stop the bees chewing at the vents and turning them into extra entrances? Also what are your views regarding end ventilation vs bottom ventilation?

I dont use Poly nucs

All my nucs are timber

with regard to top or bottom vents I use lower entrances and high vents.

All my 3 frame FD nucs have an entrance at each end and a vent at each end also

When I super my nucs the vents of the lower box line up with the entrance of the box above which makes for plenty of entrance/ vents

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Philbee said:

These are planned at 40mm Very Hard (VH)  Poly.

hi Phil,

can I ask what the density of the VH Poly is?

Here in OZ  VH EPS usually means 28g/L which is pretty soft compared to the stuff Paradise/HoneyPaw/Lyson use (but still stronger than a fishbox).

What sort of longevity do you have in mind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, chorrylan said:

hi Phil,

can I ask what the density of the VH Poly is?

Here in OZ  VH EPS usually means 28g/L which is pretty soft compared to the stuff Paradise/HoneyPaw/Lyson use (but still stronger than a fishbox).

What sort of longevity do you have in mind?

Same 28kg/m3

450kpa tensile, 240kpa shear

Thats why they are made all 40mm thick

I could make the entrance and vent holes circular for a neat fit piece of pvc pipe, say 20-25mm conduit 

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Same 28kg/m3

450kpa tensile, 240kpa shear

Thats why they are made all 40mm thick

I could make the entrance and vent holes circular for a neat fit piece of pvc pipe, say 20-25mm conduit 

Ive just spoken with the supplier and he said others who use 28kg foam paint the inside with an acrylic paint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Philbee said:

I could make the entrance and vent holes circular for a neat fit piece of pvc pipe, say 20-25mm conduit 

That sound like a great idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

That sound like a great idea.

The price has come in at 20 + gst

Styrobeck in Auckland

There is another outfit pricing as well.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Philbee said:

Ive sent the files to the supplier and have tidied various issues up.

The files being priced are for FD 6 frame 214 Inside measurement.

The 3/4 nuc price will likely be very similar and is only a matter of shortening the end and side outlines.

You had better check that 5 frames plus a feeder will fit in 214mm.

Hi @Philbee Yes the 214 will be fine.  I use 33 mm frames so there is plenty of room.

I am getting pretty keen on this for my beekeeping operation.  

Any chance please of doing a drawing for a 6 x 3/4 frame super to go with the nuc box.

I quite often double stack my NUC boxes and this would be fantastic to end up with 12 frames

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

The price has come in at 20 + gst

Styrobeck in Auckland

There is another outfit pricing as well.

Is that per sheet with components cut?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dansar said:

Is that per sheet with components cut?

No, per box but Ive asked that they revisit it because its twice the price of the similar but plain edge quote.

They agree its not right 

EPS foam Ltd are also pricing it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Hi @Philbee Yes the 214 will be fine.  I use 33 mm frames so there is plenty of room.

I am getting pretty keen on this for my beekeeping operation.  

Any chance please of doing a drawing for a 6 x 3/4 frame super to go with the nuc box.

I quite often double stack my NUC boxes and this would be fantastic to end up with 12 frames

Its all happening Trev.

do you mean supering when you say double stack.

These wont super but Im looking at a way to make them super.

I super my early mating nucs and then split the top box off to a new base to double my nuc numbers.

You dont even need brood just a box of workers and a cell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its all happening Trev.

do you mean supering when you say double stack.

These wont super but Im looking at a way to make them super.

I super my early mating nucs and then split the top box off to a new base to double my nuc numbers.

You dont even need brood just a box of workers and a cell

Yes. Exactly. I think 40mm edges will sit together just fine.

That is also how I do my nuc's  as does @dansar

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Yes. Exactly. I think 40mm edges will sit together just fine.

That is also how I do my nuc's  as does @dansar

The problem is that the walls have lugs on the lower edge as do the ends.

A box that supers needs to have flat lower edges which would then need to be strapped down to a flat base

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...