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kaihoka

queen has mated in her own apiary

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there has been some discussion in the forum about where a queen goes to mate.

and it has been suggested that she always mates outside her own apiary

my beek friend got 12 nucs from another beek took them to his apiary and put italian queens he had bred in them.

they took a week to mate.

they are laying now, workers not drones, he said you can tell because the workers are fed small amounts of royal jelly for 2 or 3 days , which you can see if you look carefully.

drones are never fed jelly.

there are no other apiaries within bee flying distance to him at this time of year.

the nucs had drones from a completely different genetic stock which must have been enough for the queen to consider them ok to mate with

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Couple of things:

Within the apiary is unlikely, but with Drones from the apiary is quite possible.

What does 'bee flying distance' mean, and how does he know?

 

I'm not arguing the point, I want to know.

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drones are never fed jelly.

 

Are you quite sure about that ?

Royal jelly - Wikipedia

"Royal jelly is secreted from the glands in the heads of worker bees, and is fed to all bee larvae, whether they are destined to become drones (males), workers (sterile females), or queens (fertile females). After three days, the drone and worker larvae are no longer fed with royal jelly, but queen larvae continue to be fed this special substance throughout their development."

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Are you quite sure about that ?

Royal jelly - Wikipedia

"Royal jelly is secreted from the glands in the heads of worker bees, and is fed to all bee larvae, whether they are destined to become drones (males), workers (sterile females), or queens (fertile females). After three days, the drone and worker larvae are no longer fed with royal jelly, but queen larvae continue to be fed this special substance throughout their development."

interesting

that was what he told me, i never thought to question it

so they may be drone layers then and not have mated

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Or just waiting until the cells are capped and all is revealed ...

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Or just waiting until the cells are capped and all is revealed ...

we shall see

he has been keeping bees for 50yrs and successfully mates queens where he is every year.

but there was one or two hives kept on a neighbors place about 2.5 klms away, until this year.

everything i read on the forum would suggest it was these drones that mated with his bees, so i was skeptical about how it would work out for him this year.

so we shall see when they are capped

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maybe some ferals ...

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maybe some ferals ...

no ferals here any more.

my queen never mated last year and was a drone layer.

after the migrant beeks came i had sucessfull matings.

i asked my friend why he thought that about drones.

he said he had been told that when he was an apprentice beek 40 odd years ago and never questioned it.

now i think he feels embarrased, he is not a book reading beek.

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He may be right yet. There is conflicting info on the net as usual

 

 

What I do know for sure is drones fed royal jelly in a queen cell in a drone laying hive die before emergence

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It is the isolation that might be interesting...

Any idea?

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He may be right yet. There is conflicting info on the net as usual

 

 

What I do know for sure is drones fed royal jelly in a queen cell in a drone laying hive die before emergence

So when you have a drone laying queen like I have had, the workers may try to make queens out of the drone eggs. And feed them lots of royal jelly. ?

My beek friend is thinking he could just cut a bit of the newly laid frame out and put it in a queenless nuc to see if they are workers not drones.

He said the bees will not bother to put royal jelly in a drone cell.

Under what circumstances did you see them try to make queens of drones

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So when you have a drone laying queen like I have had, the workers may try to make queens out of the drone eggs. And feed them lots of royal jelly. ?

Yep. Exactly . Usually when she dies or they try to supercede. Obviously it never works, but they try

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It is the isolation that might be interesting...

Any idea?

I have found it pretty impossible to mate a queen here before Dec.

They end up drone layers.

The climatic conditions are bad .

But the weather comes right and the migrant beeks arrive at the same time so hard to say which is the most important.

For me it must be the migrant beeks.

I moved my hives for the winter 4 klms down the road to the hakea for 3 months

During that time I never saw a single bee at my house

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I happen to think there are a great many places in NZ that could be used to mate queens to specific drone lines. You might be one of them, but I'm not getting a sense of your geography or your bee populations.

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Her daily wind run is about 2,000 kms

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Her daily wind run is about 2,000 kms

That's our weekly wind run not our daily :lol

Seriously this month it has been 4650 klms , we have not had so much wind.

Looking back over our records it was a lot windier last spring.

But on the 24th July this year we did have a wind run of 681 km.

When we brought our weather station we brought a top of line one cause we knew the anemometer would need to be rugged

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You gotta do what works for you and your girls. December is pretty late when's your flow?

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I happen to think there are a great many places in NZ that could be used to mate queens to specific drone lines. You might be one of them, but I'm not getting a sense of your geography or your bee populations.

Whanganui Inlet is at the Northern end of the West Coast at the bottom of Farewell Spit. Quite isolated. I looked it up previously thinking it was near "Wanganui", not so.

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I happen to think there are a great many places in NZ that could be used to mate queens to specific drone lines. You might be one of them, but I'm not getting a sense of your geography or your bee populations.

If you go to Google earth

And look for whanganui inlet, it used to be westhaven inlet.

It is at the top of the west coast of the south island.

West of nelson.

There is a small permanent apiary at mangarakau at the south end of the inlet of a 100 hives .

And a golden bay beek used to have a small site at the northern end , which he is moving I heard.

And my beek friend half way along the inlet with about 10 hives and nucs.

But in the summer the place fills up with migrant beeks.

One lot have been coming here for years and have the DOC concession all the way down the coast to the end of the road.

And there are some new comers who may not last.

In a good year there is food for unlimited bees, in a bad year everybody everybody struggles.

It is remote end of the road , at this stage free of AFB

It is one of the few places in NZ where there is an unbroken eco system of natural vegetation from the mountains to an estuary .

People have settled here but the wind drives them away so it's empty most of the time

We have a weather station and weather cam which gives you an idea of what it is like.

Whanganuiinletweather.info

 

 

You gotta do what works for you and your girls. December is pretty late when's your flow?

It has started now, but mostly next month

Kamahi, which is incredibly reliable, rata which isn't , lots Manuka , kanuka , white rata vine and general Bush.

My late summer queens are doing well , if I can just keep them from swarming till Dec.

 

 

Whanganui Inlet is at the Northern end of the West Coast at the bottom of Farewell Spit. Quite isolated. I looked it up previously thinking it was near "Wanganui", not so.

Yeah stuff I buy on trade me sometimes ends up in whanganui

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I've definitely seen royal jelly in drone cells and just checked a few articles out. They do get RJ for the first 3 days then the diet is changed.

 

Just reading my queen rearing book by woodward "Drone larvae are fed much more jelly than worker larvae because of their larger size but also the drone diet has a wider range of proteins. The composition of the older drone larvae changes as workers add more pollen and nectar" pg 14.

 

And nothing to be embarrassed about if aa experienced beek doesn't know absolutely every tiny detail about beekeeping, we all go through live with gaps in our education, and I would say when he was learning it would have been a much more word of mouth apprenticeship kind of thing, I think now we have the internet at the tips of our fingers we tend to be a lot more suspicious of anything we are told, and like to try to check "facts" out. We have a pretty good means to do so, wheras back then you didn't, especially if you were not a reader.

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One of the best things about beekeeping is there's something new to learn every season.

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So when you have a drone laying queen like I have had, the workers may try to make queens out of the drone eggs. And feed them lots of royal jelly. ?

My beek friend is thinking he could just cut a bit of the newly laid frame out and put it in a queenless nuc to see if they are workers not drones.

He said the bees will not bother to put royal jelly in a drone cell.

Under what circumstances did you see them try to make queens of drones

 

Laying worker colonies, they make qcelss.. above "everything", above cell with pollen, and of drone larva they try to make queens..

Picture is from one ( mine) laying worker colony, if noticed, surface of such qcell is smoother than ordinary qcell. In old literature is mentioned such visual distinctiveness..

5992eb8834ab0_falseqcells.jpg.fc1c0b0bab4376f25a3a0c06e1f788e0.jpg

5992eb8834ab0_falseqcells.jpg.fc1c0b0bab4376f25a3a0c06e1f788e0.jpg

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I've definitely seen royal jelly in drone cells and just checked a few articles out. They do get RJ for the first 3 days then the diet is changed.

 

Just reading my queen rearing book by woodward "Drone larvae are fed much more jelly than worker larvae because of their larger size but also the drone diet has a wider range of proteins. The composition of the older drone larvae changes as workers add more pollen and nectar" pg 14.

 

And nothing to be embarrassed about if aa experienced beek doesn't know absolutely every tiny detail about beekeeping, we all go through live with gaps in our education, and I would say when he was learning it would have been a much more word of mouth apprenticeship kind of thing, I think now we have the internet at the tips of our fingers we tend to be a lot more suspicious of anything we are told, and like to try to check "facts" out. We have a pretty good means to do so, wheras back then you didn't, especially if you were not a reader.

pity i had not seen the post this morning as I was picking some cells up from Dave half an hour ago, would have been fun to discuss...

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Laying worker colonies, they make qcelss.. above "everything", above cell with pollen, and of drone larva they try to make queens..

Picture is from one ( mine) laying worker colony, if noticed, surface of such qcell is smoother than ordinary qcell. In old literature is mentioned such visual distinctiveness..

Yes I believe you are right. I've noticed exactly that, but never thought it through and made the connection until you mentioned it. Thanks :)

 

I opened a smooth cell like that yesterday in a hive with a new queen that was a drone layer and they'd tried to supercede with a drone egg. There was just a fat drone grub drowning in royal jelly in the top of the cell.

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