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2 day vs 10 day cells


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Thanks @Daley I think you've said enough. You don't know where I live... right?

 

I will definitely have a play with your "starter is finisher" method. That just sounds too easy!

Making the queens is a piece of cake.

It's really a lot easier than most people make out as long as you have good eyesight and a steady hand.

 

Picking ones to breed from that are any good is the hard part ;)

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Making the queens is a piece of cake.

It's really a lot easier than most people make out as long as you have good eyesight and a steady hand.

 

Picking ones to breed from that are any good is the hard part ;)

Yep, I'm amazed at how the girls regularly turn my fumblings into silk purses.

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Making the queens is a piece of cake.

It's really a lot easier than most people make out as long as you have good eyesight and a steady hand.

 

Picking ones to breed from that are any good is the hard part ;)

How often do you get an early emerger?

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A swarm decided to return but not inside the hive. Mist and swept it into a nuc.

Dismantle the original hive and located all the swarm cell frames with brood including cup with egg. Left one capped cell in the bottom 2 box with some capped brood. Excluder on top. Then a honey super. Top box has the brood and all the queen cell at differed stage transfered into one frame. Pollen nectar on one side. Open brood on the other. After reading the above thread, will check in the morning if more nurse bee has come up.

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Capped cell in hair roller cages. 5th was capped but the crown was dented. So I open it hoping the bees will reseal. The far right are cell cups with egg. Will see if they will reshape the cup and feed it.

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Next thing to do is make up mini nuc and have a go with these cells as they emerge.

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Same method from another hive. I have remove one that did emerge. The Queen had a damage wing. 1 worker managed to get inside the cage.

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20161022_175226.jpg.f224bcecf2524b455f504bbeda27b965.jpg

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How often do you get an early emerger?

I used to get them a bit.

I haven't had one for years now.

If anything bad happens to them it's usually when the queen gets up and rips them all down

 

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Here are some from yesterday, not the best cells ever but they were ok.

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The good thing about having dedicated hives for providing the grubs is you can be sure the frame you are grafting from has lavae all the same age which means you won't have early emergence.

Early emergence is because one or more of the grubs grafted was significantly older than the others.

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Yes frazzol, older grub, stupid accounting error or even dumber reasons,

Ive done all these.

The dumber causes Im not even going to describe.

Here are some cells from today.

My standard now is the wax length must equal or exceed the cup length so the overal length of my cells should be 52mmcells.jpg.7d73e465e92c17683b63ccfb1d354309.jpg

cells.jpg.7d73e465e92c17683b63ccfb1d354309.jpg

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My cell raises consist of one frame of pollen, one frame of young brood and one frame of honey together with all the bees from at least one full box of brood. This all goes into a swarm box which is a full depth box with gauze ventilation on the bottom and a sack and lid over the top to keep them in. Ideally you make the cell raiser up the day before you want to graft and put the cell bars to be warmed and polished but at a pinch you can do the whole thing in one day. I normally graft at home so I bring the swarm boxes home and you just need to lift the lid and peel one corner of the sack back to provide an entrance. I use the cells two days after grafting or nine in 10 days after. The biggest advantage of two day cells as they don't get damaged travelling on rough roads they also give a longer brood break which helps with varoa control especially if you're using oxalic. I generally only use them in autumn when having the Queen laying is not so important and in spring if I have to do any grafting I normally use 10 day cells. Two day cells also have the advantage that if it is pissing down on the day you want to use them you can always leave them for a week. The same goes if I have any leftover. When moving them around I simply tip the corner of the sack back down and put the lid down. At the end of the day when all the cells are used you can leave the last cell in the box and you end up with another spare hive. I do have a carry cell which works well but I still prefer the naturally perfect conditions the bees maintain for the cells. I certainly would never put two day cells in a carry cell as they still require feeding.

I now have a starter numbered "Berry"

Its a trial of your system and it works well.

Mine is just half a FD box of Bees on a frame of pollen and one of honey with about 30 cups.

I dint use a mesh bottom, just folded Propolis mesh into the 2 full width standard entrances.

Ill start a couple of batches of cells then turn it into a 4 frame Nuc with a cell.

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Holy moly! Hope you marked that hive, bee interesting to see the queen that comes outa that sucker!

 

Yes I'm looking forward to seeing it too. There were a couple of small queen cells on the frame I squashed, I didn't want them coming out first and filling this cell! I wrote on the top of the hive "CELL RAISER!!" :-)

 

There was actually a second one two per the photo below. This frame went into a Queenless hive.

qcell2.jpg.60752f23f9ce4b3c6ca7315ac9488350.jpg

qcell2.jpg.60752f23f9ce4b3c6ca7315ac9488350.jpg

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My cell raises consist of one frame of pollen, one frame of young brood and one frame of honey together with all the bees from at least one full box of brood. This all goes into a swarm box which is a full depth box with gauze ventilation on the bottom and a sack and lid over the top to keep them in. Ideally you make the cell raiser up the day before you want to graft and put the cell bars to be warmed and polished but at a pinch you can do the whole thing in one day. I normally graft at home so I bring the swarm boxes home and you just need to lift the lid and peel one corner of the sack back to provide an entrance. I use the cells two days after grafting or nine in 10 days after. The biggest advantage of two day cells as they don't get damaged travelling on rough roads they also give a longer brood break which helps with varoa control especially if you're using oxalic. I generally only use them in autumn when having the Queen laying is not so important and in spring if I have to do any grafting I normally use 10 day cells. Two day cells also have the advantage that if it is pissing down on the day you want to use them you can always leave them for a week. The same goes if I have any leftover. When moving them around I simply tip the corner of the sack back down and put the lid down. At the end of the day when all the cells are used you can leave the last cell in the box and you end up with another spare hive. I do have a carry cell which works well but I still prefer the naturally perfect conditions the bees maintain for the cells. I certainly would never put two day cells in a carry cell as they still require feeding.

 

1. Cage queen - leave in hive 'banked'

2. Place 2 day old cell

3. Wait 'x' period of time - say 25 days- by now new queen laying eggs but NO capped brood.

4. Treat hive for varroa- all phoretic.

 

Question- Will the hive produce their own cells which could hatch before the introduced cell?

 

Caging and banking queen- to keep the hive semi queen right - delay cell raising.

Also, could remove or use the 'banked queen at treatment time - if hive queen less or splits or sell...

 

Labour intensive. Doesn't stop re infestation of mites after treatment from other yards. Also, cheap treatment and requeen to boot.

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A queenless hive will produce cells of their own but they will not hatch before the two-day cell unless there is something wrong with it. Using the broodless period for oxalic treatment should work fine for a few hives but the more hives you have the more likely you will run into problems such as two or even three queens in a hive and with varoa it's very important to treat all the hives properly at the same time. As you say you also don't deal with reinvasion. I re-queen by killing queens and placing cells but I often come across large numbers of autumn supersedure queens and I'm not going to kill those just to treat varoa. I could put them in a queen cage and leave them in the hive but I would rather they kept laying and once again you run into the problem of two queens which is very common after a supersedure event.

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A queenless hive will produce cells of their own but they will not hatch before the two-day cell unless there is something wrong with it. Using the broodless period for oxalic treatment should work fine for a few hives but the more hives you have the more likely you will run into problems such as two or even three queens in a hive and with varoa it's very important to treat all the hives properly at the same time. As you say you also don't deal with reinvasion. I re-queen by killing queens and placing cells but I often come across large numbers of autumn supersedure queens and I'm not going to kill those just to treat varoa. I could put them in a queen cage and leave them in the hive but I would rather they kept laying and once again you run into the problem of two queens which is very common after a supersedure event.

My hives often supersede but seldom swarm.

I often find 2 queens in the hives and supersedure cells.

Is this because I have poor matings.?

Some of these supersedures are of summer mated queens when the weather is good and there are lots of drones around .

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A queenless hive will produce cells of their own but they will not hatch before the two-day cell unless there is something wrong with it. Using the broodless period for oxalic treatment should work fine for a few hives but the more hives you have the more likely you will run into problems such as two or even three queens in a hive and with varoa it's very important to treat all the hives properly at the same time. As you say you also don't deal with reinvasion. I re-queen by killing queens and placing cells but I often come across large numbers of autumn supersedure queens and I'm not going to kill those just to treat varoa. I could put them in a queen cage and leave them in the hive but I would rather they kept laying and once again you run into the problem of two queens which is very common after a supersedure event.

Thanks John,

 

I mark all the queens in spring, in the first few rounds. Easy to find now and much easier later.

Requeen mid summer. Mid January onwards, with boxes on. It can be heavy and hot work. Do the AFB at the same time.

.. And it might be possible to escape the honey off at the same time....

Treatment starts Mid Feb - hopefully other beekeepers have there treatment in?

 

I could check stage of brood at treatment time, as in 'is there lots of capped brood?' if so, there could be another queen laying.

Treat those rogue hives with conventional treatment. I don't imagine many extra queens in the hives in January.

 

I did come across some reinvasion readings some time ago- can't find em now! Thought that it wasn't as big a problem is first thought??

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I was always told that supersedure and swarming were interrelated but I haven't found it to be the case. When a newly mated Queen supersedes it is invariably because there is something wrong with her, usually the mating but when it happens in autumn they are just replacing the Queen in a timely manner. Personally I really like strains of bees that supersede naturally.

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