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Bee queens under Superseding

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Ok this has been bugging me for a bit now and so here goes.

If a cell starter is queenless impulse and a finisher is supsrsedur ( spelling sorry) why can't I use a queenright hive with a queen in the top box and a excluder with a cell in the bottom box ? I could only think that a virgin queen could get through and kill the old queen.

WHY ASK I HEAR YOU SAY

Because I can and I have had a few double queen hives this year and I'm going to run a few double queen set ups this year so rather than introducing a mated queen could I just drop a cell in hopefully this makes sense

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What you suggest should work but you still need a QL starter to produce the cell that you're going to put below the excluder in the QR hive. Or have I missed something? Not uncommon :(

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Ok this has been bugging me for a bit now and so here goes.

If a cell starter is queenless impulse and a finisher is supsrsedur ( spelling sorry) why can't I use a queenright hive with a queen in the top box and a excluder with a cell in the bottom box ? I could only think that a virgin queen could get through and kill the old queen.

WHY ASK I HEAR YOU SAY

Because I can and I have had a few double queen hives this year and I'm going to run a few double queen set ups this year so rather than introducing a mated queen could I just drop a cell in hopefully this makes sense

I tried this a bit last autumn - didn't work very well. I don't know why, maybe the queens didn't like each other, maybe the bees killed the returning queen as they already had a viable one or...

 

Given that experience I think I would split the hive. Place cell in the queen less half. Once mated and laying, recombine the two hives into one, using the newspaper method, with an excluder between them.

 

When I say split, you could just put a divider between them, make sure the foragers are returning to the half the has the new queen cell.

 

Hope that makes sense...

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It's a really good question, I don't think the success rate would be high enough to risk doing any more than a few to see how it goes.

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I've heard of using two queen excluders in such situations so the queens can't reach each other?

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I think it's more likely the bees would do the killing rather than the queens fighting through a single excluder?

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Ive done it and its a mixed bag.

Maybe the addition of a pheromone masking agent may help

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you can also try superseding an old queen. if the queen is over a year or 2 old they can start losing their pheromones so when superseded the new virgin queen doesn't bother killing the old queen. So then you have 2 queens working twice as hard in 1 hive :D i have seen it in several hives.

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Welcome to the forum @StephQbee !! :)

Thanks :) glad to finally bee apart of the forum. Still getting the hang of it

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I tried doing this with a few hives last season. In spring it worked well although there were a couple of virgins that got through the excluder, killed the queen and stayed there till she became a drone layer.

In autumn it was a dismal failure, I hardly got any new queens from the 12 or 15 that I tried it with.

It could be a seasonal influence or just luck but I'm not in a huge rush to find out which.

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