frazzledfozzle 7,448 Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 This is the reply I received from Someone at MPI Your enquiries below have been forwarded to my team for response. My team, the MPI Food Assurance Team is the designated business owner of the Notice which requires listing. The listing requirements are fundamentally about meeting the market access requirements and expectations of countries that have a government to government agreement with New Zealand in terms of how bee products are to be exported to them. Due to discussions with major trading partners, local and international media attention on certain issues relating to New Zealand honey exports (i.e. authenticity/adulteration issues etc), and imminent overseas authorities’ audits of the New Zealand export assurance system, there was a need to demonstrate adequate regulatory oversight. Thisrequires MPI, as the regulator, to have a level of oversight of players in the export chain. Knowing a beekeeper’s name/business name, and address is important for that purpose. MPI understands that beekeepers supply certain information to the AFB database. Please note that that database is designed for Biosecurity purposes and access to information in that database is restricted to such purposes. It is not freely available for verifiers and honey businesses to check against. Also, since beekeepers are free to choose to supply honey to any RMP operators they like, it is practical to have a publicly available list that all RMP operators can access instead of seeking permission to access the AFB database for every transaction or for every new supplier. I replied pointing out that they don't need access to any AFB database because all the information MPI are asking for ( except fraud convictions) is currently supplied with our harvest declarations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BSB 614 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Exactly... when the people in charge of our industry regulations have such little understanding of it or are confused. While our organisation body sits on the side too focused on mutual back slapping and congratulating each other rather than helping the smaller beekeepers on a practial level what hope do we have? Meanwhile honey producers will pay the fee and jump through their hoops cause what other option do they have? We have 'skin in the game' unlike those who are setting the rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dennis Crowley 1,324 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 BSB At yesterdays APINZ board mtg we had Scott Gallacher from MPI come, and we discussed this fee among other things. We are doing things on your behalf, but things move slow when it comes to GOVT. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Stockley 3,417 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 @Dennis Crowley can you tell us what the board position was? Is ApiNZ opposed to the listing requirement, opposed to the fee or does the board hold some other view? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frazzledfozzle 7,448 Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 it makes me very angry that MPI are justifying this fee and information gathering by saying they don't have access to the AFB database. All the information they need is currently supplied on the harvest declaration with each and every load of honey brought into the shed. The exorbitant amount of money they are charging is also wrong. You can't tell me it costs $175 to enter each beekeepers information into a database. I would suggest at any point in the future if MPI want beekeepers to do any work for them are charge out rate should be $175 per hour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BSB 614 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 What she said ^ Mo ooo...kerching! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frazzledfozzle 7,448 Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 My very small way of rebelling was by sending our info via mail with a cheque after reading on their web page they prefer via email with electronic payment. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
api mania 205 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 BSB At yesterdays APINZ board mtg we had Scott Gallacher from MPI come, and we discussed this fee among other things. We are doing things on your behalf, but things move slow when it comes to GOVT. I think it would be good PR if you expanded on exactly what the boards position is on this. Having the MPI rep turn up is all very nice I'm sure. Governments do move slow, except when they made the decision to boost their budget. It seems like its all smoke and mirrors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dal 46 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 yeh true .... seems like they were pretty fast to slap on an extra $175 tax after no one really cared about their vague request for submissions back in November. I'm sure if they were honest about wanting to duplicate a beekeepers register and charge for it then they would have gotten some sharp submissions, and some very grumpy ones about trying to do it in November! Smoke and mirrors indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fieldbee 255 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 What is involved in getting an RMP? And, can a small guy like me with no extracting plant even get one? Yes if you need to store your honey before you sell it, in our early days we had one for that. and back then the cost was still getting close to $1000 if I remember correctly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BSB 614 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I see in my most recent update from Apiculture NZ via email mention of the Land use agreement form and encouragement for beekeepers to set up online accounts and logins, mention on the latest reportage about mislabelled honey but nothing on this subject. Have we just had our 'moment of truth' around manuka honey, much like the fontera food safety scare, in the form of the misrepresentation of manuka honey articles of late I wonder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frazzledfozzle 7,448 Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I don't think so @BSB, those articles are just a rehash of previous ones. The Grocer in particular has a lot to say on the subject but never anything new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BSB 614 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Ahh, yes but its a perception thing rather than a reality thing Frazz.... people talking in a negative way is never a good thing and it isn't an issue that has been resolved so could burble along for a while and hurt us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett21 1 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I think it was just a once off fee? Wasn't too happy about the time Frame we were given to file the form and pay! Was a last minute rush! Another way to get money? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john berry 5,583 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I've been away so I missed this little gem. I actually started a thread on the subject last night but something crashed and I never got it out there and while trying to fix the problem I noticed that I was not the only one wondering what the hell was going on. I will of course fill out the form and pay my money because I have to if I want to stay in business. I did go to the website and I did find the form but it took me around 20 minutes. Perhaps being able to find the right form is part of the test because none of the rest makes any sense. Everything they want to know is available on the harvest declaration or they could even get the RMP holders to get beekeeper suppliers to fill in a form with their information on. I think the only thing people of got wrong on this subject is the cost. Knowing government departments it probably costs more to process the financial transaction than they actually get. MPI would have more sympathy from me if they did anything with harvest declarations. Joe blogs extracts 10 ton of honeydew and assumedly fills all his forms in correctly. He then sells all 10 tons to Bill Smith who has a few hives of his own and has 10 tons of manuka. Bill then proceeds to sell 20 ton of manuka. All they seem interested in is whether the i is dotted and T's crossed. For the record I don't think this is a plot by RMP holders. They are pretty hard done by actually and the fees go up every year. When they brought in RMP's they gave me the impression that you could do anything you liked as long as you could prove your end product was fit for the purpose intended. Instead you have to do what your particular auditor thinks is right and God help you if he or she has had a bad night. Some of them of course are reasonable people, you just have to get lucky which is not really a good outcome and no I don't have an RMP but I know lots of people that have and the stress that it involves. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BSB 614 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I don't think is a plot by rmp holders but I do think they have little reason to fight it or complain as they are already covered. Which means it is a fee on the smaller guys who are more likely to use contract extractors. As our industry body is now seemingly controlled by the big boys and landowners etc who don't need any rmps anyway who is going to complain and kick up a stink about this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P K Tan 1,630 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Would civil disobedience work in this country to change a law? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Santa 71 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Would civil disobedience work in this country to change a law? Probably not but it could be lots of fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bush Bee 26 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Want a law change?, join the Federated Farmers. The Nat government will change anything for them, ethical or not. After all, MPI is a branch of the Feds, is it not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john berry 5,583 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 As far as I know the law hasn't changed. What has changed is a bureaucrats interpretation of the law. They hopefully had a really good reason to reinterpret the rules but they could've done a lot more to convince us that they are right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philbee 4,672 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's not for our benefit. Its so that Mr Wong in Beijing knows exactly (if he can be bothered looking) who supplied the honey he's passing on to his supermarkets. What peeves me off is when the do gooders in this industry start bleating on that Mr Wong is paying too much for his Honey. I guarantee it isnt the do gooders who will be paying these fees Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hector Wong 260 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Mr Wong is paying too much for his Honey I' not paying anything for my honey but my wife says I'm paying a fortune for my gear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philbee 4,672 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I' not paying anything for my honey but my wife says I'm paying a fortune for my gear. No offence intended Hector. If you think gear is expensive, try and buy Bees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aquila 612 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 You don't need to register with MPI if you have a RMP of your own, anybody look up the list of exempt people? It lists primary producers as exempt so that's us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Stockley 3,417 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 You don't need to register with MPI if you have a RMP of your own, anybody look up the list of exempt people? It lists primary producers as exempt so that's us. That's interesting and awesome if correct. Do you have a link to that list @Aquila? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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