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Alastair

Cost of sugar

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You feed pollen if they need it, and sugar if they need it. No point feeding pollen patties if what the bees need is need sugar. Two years ago I had a few hives short of pollen so bought a couple sacks of pollen sub, mixed it up and fed some of it, but turns out where I am bees pretty much always get enough pollen, most of that sub I mixed is still in the deep freeze.

 

How do you calculate that fondant "would be cheaper for sure", cheaper than what? Syrup?

 

If you want to know why fondant is not used ask Philbee. He went down that path and has written several threads here arguing that fondant is much better, easier, etc. than syrup, now he uses syrup. The reality of it has made him jump the fence.

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Fondant is fantastic if you can get it cheap. have feed a few ton of it in the UK. as a plus it also makes the most amazing fudge.

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I tried to contact Candy Land to see if they would price some fondant.

At the time they had an answer phone message saying they were closed for a few months.

I didn't get back to them but should.

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Maybe someone else in NZ would consider making it for you if they got paid enough?

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The cost of heating water for syrup.....

 

  • 1 Calorie raises one kilo (litre) of water by 1°C
     
  • There's 859 Calories in a KwHr. So can lift 859 litres by 1°C.
     
  • To raise 300 litres by 37°C (from ambient ground 13°C to 50°C) requires 11,100 Calories (300x37)
  • Which requires 12.9 KwHrs (units).
     
  • At $0.25 per unit it costs $3.20 per 300 litres or enough to make 1,000 litres of syrup
  • 0.32 cents ($0.0032) per litre of syrup.

 

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The cost of heating water for syrup.....

 

  • 1 Calorie raises one kilo (litre) of water by 1°C

     

  • There's 859 Calories in a KwHr. So can lift 859 litres by 1°C.

     

  • To raise 300 litres by 37°C (from ambient ground 13°C to 50°C) requires 11,100 Calories (300x37)

  • Which requires 12.9 KwHrs (units).

     

  • At $0.25 per unit it costs $3.20 per 300 litres or enough to make 1,000 litres of syrup

  • 0.32 cents ($0.0032) per litre of syrup.

 

 

 

that is interesting. I guess that units of gas are cheaper than 25c, but that there is also a lot of waste heat and not all of the energy used is transferred into the water. To get good efficiency I suppose you need to have the element in the water like a kettle, whereas a gas ring under a big pot is inherently less efficient. Anyway, if a litre of syrup is 67c of sugar and 32c of energy, that makes the price of $1 per litre look pretty good. Price of invert at $1.10 a litre sounds impossible for most people to achieve at small scale.

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As I read it it is 0.32c not 32c. So heating cost is approx 1/300 of sugar cost ($0.32/$1 for 1kg sugar).

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As I read it it is 0.32c not 32c. So heating cost is approx 1/300 of sugar cost ($0.32/$1 for 1kg sugar).

 

oops, you're right. sorry.

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Hey Thanks Emmisary, that's great info. :)

 

As for me, I've sent my last empty maxi back to Chelsea and from now on I'll be mixing it. Just purchased a hang in water heater on Trade Me for a mere $27.00, and the plan is to put the required water in the tank via the hose, hang the heating element in the water overnight (or however long it takes) then tip in the bagged sugar and mix via the pump.

 

I have done this before and it takes less than an hour and should save me better than 300 bucks over buying a maxi.

 

Are there any maths wiz kids out there who can figure how long it should take a 1000 watt heater to raise 300 litres water by about 40 degrees? I used to put hot water in the tank from the home hot water cylinder but this completely drained it and resulted in dark murmurings from anyone who tried to have a shower within a couple hours of me doing it. :eek:

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I just watched a video of how to make fondant

I didn't know what fondant really was. Looks like inverted sugar, almost zero water, and meant to be soft and somewhat 'marshmellow'. I presume it is less of a problem for robbing because it is dry and does not give the same smell as a syrup that is always in the process of evaporating. I searched for old forum threads on fondant and didn't come up with much. I must be driving the search function incorrectly. I did find a funny thread where Dave Black was discussing the differences between commercials and hobbyists. Anyway, I might have some fun in the kitchen. We currently have a tree of limes on the "go" but lemons are not quite fully yellow, I guess I could use limes equally well.

 

Another question, what's the difference between making candy for a queen cage and fondant? Is it the same just 'softer'. Candy for the QC basically a paste?

 

For cheap heating of water, it is possible to buy small gas califonts for campervans and the like and/or to buy really big califonts too. I suspect that it would be quite an efficient method of heating to put a califont on the pump outlet such that cooler water was continually reheated through the califont while being pumped. Assuming gas is cheaper than electricity.

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Are there any maths wiz kids out there who can figure how long it should take a 1000 watt heater to raise 300 litres water by about 40 degrees?

in theory 14 hours.

but whats not included in that and also the costing above, is the cooling by the sugar and the heat loss.

 

one of the problems is if its not insulated enough and the heater is small (ie 1000 watts) the heating time is long which also means it has a long time to loose heat. ie you have to heat it up faster than its loosing heat. also the hotter it is the more heat it looses. this can mean double/triple the time it takes to heat up or not even reach the required temp.

that also adds to the cost.

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Are there any maths wiz kids out there who can figure how long it should take a 1000 watt heater to raise 300 litres water by about 40 degrees?

 

Not a whiz.... but it's a simple calculation. A unit of electricity is a kilowatt Hour so a 1 KW heater has to run for an hour to produce 859 Calories. So 300 kilos/(litres) of water X 40°C = 12,000 Calories / 859 Calories per hours = 13.97 hours heating.

 

The problem is that this doesn't take into account any losses from the system and the longer it takes to heat the greater these losses are. So you really need a much bigger heating source to reduce the time. A 3 Kw heater would drop the time taken to a third but this would still lose a significant amount of heat from the system unless it is very well insulated.

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OK thanks guys.

 

Yes it's just a plastic tank so there will be heat loss, guess I'll have to get a bigger heater.

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OK thanks guys.

 

Yes it's just a plastic tank so there will be heat loss, guess I'll have to get a bigger heater.

and insulation.

 

 

859 Calories

btw its kiloCalories rather than just calories. otherwise the maths is ok.

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and insulation.

I'm contemplating getting an old hot water cilinder and cutting the top off it....

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I'm contemplating getting an old hot water cilinder and cutting the top off it....

as long as its the old low pressure with fiberglass type insulation.

if i recall right the newer foam insulation ones have thinner tanks, which may not hold its shape after cutting the top off.

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as long as its the old low pressure with fiberglass type insulation.

if i recall right the newer foam insulation ones have thinner tanks, which may not hold its shape after cutting the top off.

Damn straight! I have a dad who is a sparkle so he looks after this sort of stuff for me :-)

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Damn straight! I have a dad who is a sparkle so he looks after this sort of stuff for me :)

Why would you cut the top off?

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Why would you cut the top off?

double as a bath?

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btw its kiloCalories rather than just calories. otherwise the maths is ok.

 

By convention Calories (capital "C") are the big ones and calories (little "c") are the small ones.

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By convention Calories (capital "C") are the big ones and calories (little "c") are the small ones.

i did see that. Cal rather than cal (why they do that instead something like kcal i don't know).

not sure if many would have picked up on the capital hence the mention.

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I thought about the kcal in the post - didn't know that "C" was the '000 version

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I'm curious as to why you would cut the top off the hot water cylinder? I've got an old electric dairy heater at home(300 litres) and it is essentially a giant hot water cylinder with a funnel at the top for filling and a tap on the bottom for draining and a 3 pin plug to turn it on and that's it, surely the same could be done to a conventional low pressure cylinder

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Continue heating the syrup once sugar has been added.... Like making invert syrup etc.... Plus I like hacking stuff up....

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how are you mixing your syrup?

 

wouldn't the syrup bake onto the element?

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