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The growth of unskilled commercial operators

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Lots of accusations flying around in this topic. We've removed some of the worst unfounded ones, but a reminder that your comments are public an you are responsible for the liability of your own claims and some of you need to start backing them up with evidence.

My comment wasn't intended to be directly aimed at one particular company (sorry if it was). It is VERY VERY VERY common practice across many rural industries, Philippinos get picked on because (as a general rule) they have work ethics many times the average new zealander, and will work significantly harder for significantly less money than new zealanders will. Without turning up to a staff room in the middle of the busy season, I wouldnt be game to pick on an individual company. IMHO Many of the companies that use imported labour from the pacific and the phillipines etc treat them like dog poop, break the law in every way they can because the workers will not complain because they know they will not get allowed back.

 

"Vulnerability in New Zealand Dairy Farming: The Case of Filipino Migrants" by Tipples, Rupert; Rawlinson, Philippa; Greenhalgh, Jill - New Zealand Journal of Employment Relations (Online), Vol. 37, Issue 3, September 1, 2012 | Online Research Library: Questia

Report finds some migrant workers exploited

Farmers Weekly | Filipino dairy rights group “fighting back”

https://e2nz.org/whats-it-like-to-live-in-nz/vox-pop/chapter-1/new-zealand-is-turning-into-a-really-racist-country/

I dont have an issue with people coming to New Zealand to work, I detest when they are paid less than what a New Zealander would be paid to do that job. If you dont think this is real, turn off your computer and go for a walk into any orchard/packhouse during harvest.

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I detest when they are paid less than what a New Zealander would

On the other hand they must be getting paid more than they would at home. Think global village.

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When they are earning less than cost of living in the country they are working in the global village gets nothing...

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On the other hand they must be getting paid more than they would at home. Think global village.

Yes but they are normally made to pay back their airfare, accomodation, food etc. because they are being paid less there is often not enough left over to save/send money home. It also often ends up being less than minimum wage.... Which is against the law.

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When they are earning less than cost of living in the country they are working in

Is that the case ?

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Is that the case ?

Sadly yes

 

 

Yes but they are normally made to pay back their airfare, accomodation, food etc. because they are being paid less there is often not enough left over to save/send money home. It also often ends up being less than minimum wage.... Which is against the law.

There's also an employment agency in there home country charging them up to about 3k just for finding a job, many go home far worse off than they were before they came here.

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We have fruit processors in Hawke's Bay that maintain registers of good workers. You see the same faces returning year after year. The workers wouldn't come back if it wasn't working for them.

 

I accept there are some ratbag employers out there who take advantage. I suspect they're a minority in NZ and don't last long in business. As a society we're better than that.

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We employed three Filipino workers on our dairy farms . They always turned up on time , worked hard and did a good job . No P , weed or booze issues either , so what more could you ask for ! They were paid well enough that the couple could send one wage back home to pay for a house to be built , while living on the other wage . The amount of farmers that wont touch kiwi's are growing , and for good reason . Sure there are ratbag employers out there , but the Filipino network susses them out fairly fast . Idiots that abuse or underpay their staff , whether local or foreign had better get a handle on how to operate their own machinery , cause they might find that no-one else will .

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I few years ago at work I was supervising a crew of RSE workers from Vanuatu. They for really closed up hard to work with people, for the first few days. After about a week they started to open up a bit. The place where they had come form the supervisor couldnt be bothered learning their names and just addressed them by their bag number. How would that feel? The guy didnt even try to learn their names (they weren't that hard either), just went strait for the bag number. I have also heard many stories of RSE workers being stacked 8 people to a caravan and being charged 120 bucks a week each for the privilege. Because of the contracts that they are in there is nothing they can do about it. They also have to pay for al their own food etc.

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We had a young kiwi guy in our first aid class on Friday..hoody up and switched off..instructor had bit of a long chat with him, he came back hoody still up but switched on..his employer may still have wasted there money.

 

I few years ago at work I was supervising a crew of RSE workers from Vanuatu. They for really closed up hard to work with people, for the first few days. After about a week they started to open up a bit. The place where they had come form the supervisor couldnt be bothered learning their names and just addressed them by their bag number. How would that feel? The guy didnt even try to learn their names (they weren't that hard either), just went strait for the bag number. I have also heard many stories of RSE workers being stacked 8 people to a caravan and being charged 120 bucks a week each for the privilege. Because of the contracts that they are in there is nothing they can do about it. They also have to pay for al their own food etc.

And it was left to the Red cross and Sally army to find warm clothing for them...

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As part of the corporate beekeeping world I have to say that the foreign workers we have on staff in our branch are paid the same level as our kiwis, and on average probably get paid more as they are all skilled beekeepers with years experance vs many of our kiwis are trainees.

 

I also note that none of our foreigners have ever back-chatted or the like to me - some of the kiwis...

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As part of the corporate beekeeping world I have to say that the foreign workers we have on staff in our branch are paid the same level as our kiwis, and on average probably get paid more as they are all skilled beekeepers with years experance vs many of our kiwis are trainees.

 

I also note that none of our foreigners have ever back-chatted or the like to me - some of the kiwis...

But I know foreigners bottle thing up till they can't handle and then leave

I hear from another beekeeper that he ask one of his worker if he like his job he said yes and then the worker went for another job and in the interview the beekeeper ask if he like his old job he said no but the two manger were friend

So it got report bag

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But I know foreigners bottle thing up till they can't handle and then leave

I hear from another beekeeper that he ask one of his worker if he like his job he said yes and then the worker went for another job and in the interview the beekeeper ask if he like his old job he said no but the two manger were friend

So it got report bag

Kiwis would do the same

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The biggest problem with RSE workers is that it keeps wages down for New Zealanders.

Employers in some industrys say they cant get kiwis to work, fact is they dont pay enough for anyone to survive if they have a mortgage and kids.

For someone on the islands or the phillipines it is enough.

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I been to the Phillipines a few time and they think we are rich on an average wage

Even half my wages goes a long way

It a good place to go for a cheap hoilday if u have some one to go with and show you around and not let u get rip off my a local

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The province my wife comes from is full of anti government rebels...she doesn't want to go back there ever.

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The biggest problem with RSE workers is that it keeps wages down for New Zealanders.

Employers in some industrys say they cant get kiwis to work, fact is they dont pay enough for anyone to survive if they have a mortgage and kids.

For someone on the islands or the phillipines it is enough.

In Hawkes bay I do not agree. While I agree that the wages are low, when on contract they get paid the same as everybody else. I have heard from managers that RSE workers end up costing around 8% more for a season than a kiwi (assuming the kiwi can last the season, not many do), the difference is RSE workers are normally a lot better workers. Some are awful but the selection criteria are getting better! The last few years I ran crews for my day jobs harvest, the year I had RSE workers I had the same 18 pickers, every day. One guy and one sick day. My final year of supervising crews (I now do clean up and PSA cover sprays during harvest) I had all new zealanders... I had 41 different people over 3 weeks... No more than 19 people in one day. And I was nice to them. Other supervisors had even more turnover.

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I had 41 different people over 3 weeks.

What does that tell you about the pay rate ?

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Well there are more dishonest

 

What does that tell you about the pay rate ?

18 bucks per hour in 2013. plus holiday pay.

 

Picking kiwifruit is hard work I will admit. however most of the time people didnt even bother texting to let me (or anybody) know they were not going to be there. Then you get the people who only go to work to be fired so they can get back on the dole.

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Why would anyone want to be on the dole.

I have spent time on the dole.

Because I got to old to compete with foreign workers in the orchard industry.

Orchardists I know go to Vanuatu and hand pick the strongest fittest workers, which is smart .

But Europeans can not always keep up.

When I was berry tying all the Europeans were old and the young people south east asians.

Maybe young kiwis would do the work if their wages could build a house.

The foreign workers can knuckle down because they can see some progress in their life with the money they send back.

They are building their future.

You can not build a future for yourself in NZ on rural labour wages

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You guys say the same thing as on the other thread started by @tony.

It clearly shows the lack of education on a national level.

 

Why does the government not care about the education? Do you know the answer?

 

@Kiwifruiter in 2013 an average family with 2 children was paying 350+ish/week for food. I am not familiar with Napier however I know people who moved over there because of cheaper homes and rent.

Nowadays an entry level of hourly pay should start around $25. Every company I worked for was thinking 100% the socialist way. They were telling to the staff "....look outside of the box..." but the manager, business owner never did the same thing.

 

In a normal modern capitalist society those who work will have a decent life while those who do not(like those who did not show up for work with @Kiwifruiter ) will end up homeless on the streets. New Zealand does not have too many homeless people. It is true we are less than 4.5 million people in the country.

 

What do you think is the real reason of not having too many homeless people in NZ? People overseas think as we in NZ are rich and that is why only few people end up homeless. We know this is not true.

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You guys say the same thing as on the other thread started by @tony.

It clearly shows the lack of education on a national level.

 

Why does the government not care about the education? Do you know the answer?

The government SHOULDN'T care. If people want to earn good money they need to figure out how to do it. The government do need to provide some to assist people who have been disadvantaged in some way but it shouldn't be up to the government to try and force education on people who are too thick to want it. People should be self motivated to go get an education, in what ever they want to do to earn money.

 

@Kiwifruiter in 2013 an average family with 2 children was paying 350+ish/week for food.
Maby if the family had 8 parents. If you couldnt have a family of 4 eat well on 200 bucks a week you were doing something wrong.

Nowadays an entry level of hourly pay should start around $25.
Thats a joke surly???
Every company I worked for was thinking 100% the socialist way. They were telling to the staff "....look outside of the box..." but the manager, business owner never did the same thing.
Socialism is government control and regulation at every level... Were they really?

 

In a normal modern capitalist society those who work will have a decent life while those who do not(like those who did not show up for work with @Kiwifruiter ) will end up homeless on the streets. New Zealand does not have too many homeless people. It is true we are less than 4.5 million people in the country.

 

What do you think is the real reason of not having too many homeless people in NZ? People overseas think as we in NZ are rich and that is why only few people end up homeless. We know this is not true.

IMHO a significant number of people that are homeless are so because of mental illness, that 20 years ago would be living in a goverment run institution. Shutting them forced everybody out into the community, and not all could cope.

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All very interesting. .. now I have to get my self off to work to earn my $20.00 per hour.

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I can speak from experience, I have worked in low wage or primary industry all my life.

3 years ago I worked at a big name seafood company for $14.80hr. $2 less per hour than what I was paid at the same company in 2002.

In 2002 80% of the workers were maori or islanders ( nz citizens not RSE) go there now and 98% are former refugees, do you think this has had an impact on wages paid?

Apple picking used to be paid on contract per bin picked, now they have a machine staffed by RSE workers on hourly rate, guess the hourly rate? Those RSE workers are housed in purpose built bunk rooms 8-10 to a room. In the past before RSE orchard owners said it wasnt economic to build accommodation to house kiwi workers/ backpackers for the season, funny how its become economic off the back of these low paid RSE workers.

Taxpayers are subsidising employers by paying working for families subsidies for employees that are married with children. We couldnt have survived if we relied on wages alone so was very grateful for the money each week but it shouldnt be happening.

 

$18hr? I wish

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