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Alastair

Bad start to the season anyone?

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oops dont kno what happened with all the repeated photos :( can someone fix that for me ?

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oops dont kno what happened with all the repeated photos :( can someone fix that for me ?

Done(y)

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Ok, how many QEs in that hive?

If only one, the queens must come across each other.

Ive seen a queen hunt for another in the next door nuc. she was across the partition in a flash

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@King Bee two queen hives usually start as a double brood hive thats split in half with a split board then either a cell or a queen is introduced to the queenless half.

Once the new queens brood starts to hatch you can unite the two halves to make one hive separated by an excluder to keep the queens apart because while the bees are happy with two queens the queens themselves will fight if they come across each other.

Ill change my question because you have already answered the QE one.

My understanding is that two queens, one each side of an excluder will waste energy and time sparring through the excluder?

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Has that ever been seen, or demonstrated? Do you have a reference for where you read this?

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Ive never observed queens wasting time sparring through the excluder.

 

We have been double queening for years, if it wasnt working for whatever reason we and other beekeepers wouldnt run them.

 

One thing about beekeeping theres alot of myths out there and you just have to sort the wood from the chaff.

 

For years we pooh poohed a local beekeeper who ran singles in honey we always ran doubles for everything. Long story short we had to put singles into the flow one season and were blown away by how much honey they did we never put doubles into honey now.

 

Beekeepers who have never put singles into honey will still try to tell us theres not enough bees in a single to get a good crop.

 

This year has been amazing honey wise with alot of our singles on there 5th and 6th honey super.

 

Thats just one example of mot always believing what others say until you try it yourself.

 

.

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Has that ever been seen, or demonstrated? Do you have a reference for where you read this?

I was told by a bloke who manufactured a type of division board.

So what I understand to be the case is based on anecdotal evidence.

If you search forums there seems to be a mix of opinions

 

Two Queens in the same Hive? [Archive] - Beesource Beekeeping Forums

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Told by a bloke who manufactured a division board. I can see where you are coming from now.

 

As to Beesource, you can believe what you read (sometimes) if it is said by someone who has actually tried it, more than once. ;)

 

Since people like Frazz actually do this as standard procedure, every year, on many hives, would it not be reasonable to accept they know something about it?

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If anyone can ever demonstrate unique medicinal properties for Kanuka DoC is sitting on a gold mine in St James.

 

Honeylab have demonstrated anti-inflammatory properties with Kanuka for the treatment of acne, but their research in my opinion is not of good quality and I suspect has conflict of interest (marketing crap). We need some independent research before I'd believe it's worth a shot. If it proves to be, maybe it might be the next big thing?

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For years we pooh poohed a local beekeeper who ran singles in honey we always ran doubles for everything. Long story short we had to put singles into the flow one season and were blown away by how much honey they did we never put doubles into honey now.

 

My commerical beek friend runs two brood boxes, then excludes the queen down to one FD box just before the main honey flow and they swear by it, their yield certainly speaks for itself. Is this the kind of practice you mean?

 

Also what is your hypothesis on why running one brood does as well as two?

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My commerical beek friend runs two brood boxes, then excludes the queen down to one FD box just before the main honey flow and they swear by it, their yield certainly speaks for itself. Is this the kind of practice you mean?

 

Also what is your hypothesis on why running one brood does as well as two?

I read an English bee book years ago, they take about single vs double, I can't remember the figures so have just worked it out ish.

10 frames in a single. 2 outside frames of stores. 8 frames with around 3400 cells per side =54400 say a third of those taken up with pollen and honey, that leaves around 36200 cells available for the queen. Say queen lays 1500 eggs per day = 31500 eggs over 21 days.

Plenty of room for brood rearing in a single with some careful frame arrangement before honey flow.

I always run singles for this reason.

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I read an English bee book years ago, they take about single vs double, I can't remember the figures so have just worked it out ish.

10 frames in a single. 2 outside frames of stores. 8 frames with around 3400 cells per side =54400 say a third of those taken up with pollen and honey, that leaves around 36200 cells available for the queen. Say queen lays 1500 eggs per day = 31500 eggs over 21 days.

Plenty of room for brood rearing in a single with some careful frame arrangement before honey flow.

I always run singles for this reason.

For the Beek that wants to expand numbers, and assuming this logic is sound, they can in theory double their production hive numbers in the time it takes to introduce a cell and get a queen laying.

In theory with a net gain in production for minimal expense and time

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For the Beek that wants to expand numbers, and assuming this logic is sound, they can in theory double their production hive numbers in the time it takes to introduce a cell and get a queen laying.

In theory with a net gain in production for minimal expense and time

If you mean make your doubles into singles then yes, but a brood nest if split, would need time to expand again for honey production. It's not minimal expense you would need extra base, matt, lid and excluder, not forgetting double the extra honey supers. The only thing you save is 1 box and 10 frames.

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If you mean make your doubles into singles then yes, but a brood nest if split, would need time to expand again for honey production. It's not minimal expense you would need extra base, matt, lid and excluder, not forgetting double the extra honey supers. The only thing you save is 1 box and 10 frames.

Yes, However if you have the sites, the cost is offset by the extra income for a given time frame?

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Yes, However if you have the sites, the cost is offset by the extra income for a given time frame?

Yes no problem. So if cost is not an issue, you could split your doubles into 4 or 5, build them up for winter then split them again in spring. The point is singles can do just as well as doubles, if not better.

To make point, I put hive in my elderly friends small garden. It's in one 3/4 box, every time I visit I change a few frames around ( 2 frames from the middle placed to the outer edges of the brood nest ) it's made over

40 kg.

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I read an English bee book years ago, they take about single vs double, I can't remember the figures so have just worked it out ish.

10 frames in a single. 2 outside frames of stores. 8 frames with around 3400 cells per side =54400 say a third of those taken up with pollen and honey, that leaves around 36200 cells available for the queen. Say queen lays 1500 eggs per day = 31500 eggs over 21 days.

Plenty of room for brood rearing in a single with some careful frame arrangement before honey flow.

I always run singles for this reason.

I run single Jumbo brood boxes 11 frames, and quite often a hive will have 9 frames mostly full of brood. Some of these hives are now producing their 7th 3/4 box of honey this season. Admittedly I've also had some swarm out but that was my lack of timely management.

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The problem with singles is how do you feed them.I had some ,pre varroa.The singles were 10 frames of brood with no pollen or honey in the brood nest.All the pollen was in a circle above the excluder.The only way to keep them,alive for the winter was totake the excluder out and leave that top box of honey for them.The problem is the honey was Rata and,I had good strong hives die with Rata honey left,for feed.Why?The Rata crystalises so hard the bees spend so much energy converting it to nectar.

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Well here it's been dry dry dry. Flows over in some places, today I checked some supers I had added as undersupers, and the bees have done nothing not even drawn the foundation. Maybe if it rains nectar will come but as things stand right now this has been the sharpest, most intense, shortest season I think I have ever experienced. When the honey was coming it was pumping though, hives went from zero to 3 full honey supers in a few quick weeks.

 

Some sites still collecting though.

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The problem with singles is how do you feed them

easy, just feed them sugar or if your not into that simply remove all the supers before honey flow stops. they will pack out the brood and brood will shrink right down.

 

single broods are not perfect. a bit undersized so some management and careful swarm control needed. double are easier on swarming and faster to build back up.

don't forget with single you automatically gain a box of honey that the bees would normally take for themselves.

 

the double brood, drop to single brood is a common practice. its just a ton of work to make sure the queen is down.

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we have been harvesting (till both blowers died!). clover has all ended in places, everything has browned off.

crop size is good. averaged 4 boxes a hive and still left a couple of uncapped on for them to finish off.

still got time for some rain and a second run before we hit the tail end.

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Just found out we got 30mm yesterday, it is raining lightly now and by the look of the black clouds will probably rain tonight.

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@frazzledfozzle With your two queen hives. If they are separated by an Q/E, do you make an entrance in the top brood box for the drones or make a notch in the Q/X??

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We set the top broodbox back off the excluder, theres a photo here somewhere

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My commerical beek friend runs two brood boxes, then excludes the queen down to one FD box just before the main honey flow and they swear by it, their yield certainly speaks for itself. Is this the kind of practice you mean?

 

This sounds like a good idea, in all our double brood hives the upper brood boxes are just chocker full of honey, spoilt by a bit of brood. The exact mechanics of reducing a double back to a single (for a newbie like me) would be sorting down to the bottom all the eggs and young brood, (and queen of course) adequete stores of pollen and honey down the bottom also, and hopefully there would only be left over mature brood left in the top box to hatch when you move the excluder down one box?

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