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Trevor Gillbanks

Nassenheider Professional Formic Acid Dispensers

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I asked this question on the website but got no reply, the manual shows the treatment in August, Sept & Oct, I assume that's a northern hemisphere treatment regime ? What would the suggested treatment regime be here using the Nassenheider evaporator ?

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I asked this question on the website but got no reply, the manual shows the treatment in August, Sept & Oct, I assume that's a northern hemisphere treatment regime ? What would the suggested treatment regime be here using the Nassenheider evaporator ?

Autumn is recommended. They don't recommend spring, and I think it may be because there is the potential for too short a time for the FA to dissipate and not taint the taste of the oncoming honey crop. It's no different from using MAQS or absorbent pads, which people do in spring anyway.

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Shem, if I read your post correctly, Formic acid risks tainting honey in some way, including if it is applied as maqs? The maqs information says it is ok to use with honey supers on? I haven't used them before so interested in experience with formic acid and whether it can/will taint honey and if so, how to use it so avoiding this problem?

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Shem, if I read your post correctly, Formic acid risks tainting honey in some way, including if it is applied as maqs? The maqs information says it is ok to use with honey supers on? I haven't used them before so interested in experience with formic acid and whether it can/will taint honey and if so, how to use it so avoiding this problem?

formic acid is tasteless and honey contains FA anyway, so the contamination risk is minor.

with mags probably less of an issue than with a long term treatment like nassenheider.

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If MAQS contains FA then FA gets into the wax and the honey; otherwise it's a placebo.

 

formic acid is tasteless and honey contains FA anyway, so the contamination risk is minor.

with mags probably less of an issue than with a long term treatment like nassenheider.

Haven't tasted FA! Wouldn't recommend it. Taste and smell are interconnected., so if you are going to try, and please please don't, then you'd be better off to pinch your nostrils and have expert help at hand! Honey contains all sorts of things at non-toxic or not off-putting levels. My take on it is that honey is a gourmet or high quality food, and the customer should be treated with the utmost respect.

 

The maqs information says it is ok to use with honey supers on? I haven't used them before so interested in experience with formic acid and whether it can/will taint honey and if so, how to use it so avoiding this problem?
] Follow the label! ( at least for MAQS)

MAQS state a withholding period of 2 weeks after treatment is finished before harvesting honey.

MAQS has 46.7 grams of FA per strip, or 93.4 per treatment. The nassenheider evaporator uses up to 290 grams: it's variable.

The Nassenheider people are more conservative in their recommendations. At least give the acid the appropriate time to dissipate: and it will be longer with the Nassenheider. My preference is for the Nassenheider because of flexibility in dosage . I have had similar results using pads in ziplock bags: so far a bit more time involved; might work it out with absorbent nappy pads.

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Mirrors on the hive mats

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There's a helpful overview of options in http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/paper/varroa-treatment-options.htm

 

And in "Determination of residues in honey after treatments with formic and oxalic acid under field conditions" Stefan BOGDANOV; Jean-Daniel CHARRIÈRE; Anton I MDORF; Verena K ILCHENMANN; Peter F LURI state: "In some cases the increase of formic acid could changed of in honey taste (see Sect. 4.5.2)" and:

"In emergency cases with high mite infestation rate in spring,a treatment with formic is often necessary. Our results show that a treatment with formic acid in spring might lead to an increase of formic acid in summer honey that is near the taste threshold of this acid in honey (see Sect. 4.5.2). Thus, under moderate climate conditions, formic acid should be used generally during the period outside the honey flow, mostly just after the honey harvest in late summer."

I take this to mean that in a moderate or weak honey flow and or with a very mild or delicate honey, FA could affect the honey's taste.

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On 11/5/2014 at 9:54 AM, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Thanks @Manfred That is a lot clearer.

I run FD single boxes so I should be OK with Medium and 180 ml FA.

Yes I understand about the initial 1 off cost. I already have 20 lt of FA so my treatments will be very cheap.

 

@Over Worker Yes FA is dangerous stuff and correct safety procedures are required.

Trevor, I am about to put these on 2 of my hives, but can't work out the water to formic mix to get to 60% or did you use it 50%?  If at 60%, do you have the ratios for mixing ?

 

Thanks

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from memory you ad one l water into 3 liters of 85% acid and you get 4 l of  63.333% acid.

that's from memory, please check.

 

<Abridged. Please refer to following posts>

 

 

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40 minutes ago, ikwezinz said:

Trevor, I am about to put these on 2 of my hives, but can't work out the water to formic mix to get to 60% or did you use it 50%?  If at 60%, do you have the ratios for mixing ?

 

Thanks

From where have you obtained your formic ?

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

From where have you obtained your formic ?

I got 5 litres from our office cleaners 

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2 hours ago, Curious George said:

 

Hmmm Tom I would question that - I was always taught to add acid to water.

 

The process of adding water to acid is a highly exothermic process which releases a large amount of heat. When acid is added to water with constant stirring the heat is evolved gradually and absorbed by a large amount of water. As a result, acid doesn't splash out and thus no acid burn takes place.

thanks @Curious George. so happy that someone was onto it. of cos you are right.

i wonder if someone could write that into my post that it's wrong. that's really dangerous advice.

or at least give it a "disagree" sticker. i can't do it cos it's my own post

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Hello Guys

 

my name is Christian and im a hobby beekeeper from Germany. currently moving into new zealand (which means selling all my hives here - sigh!)

 

anyway i got experience with the nassenheider, as its a german product. if you got any questions you can always ask me if you wish! Looking forward to beekeeping in the future in new zealand

 

of course it is for northern hemisphere treatments, so adding 6 months should be good for you. maybe even more as your weather is warmer as far as i know...

 

the formic acid treatment should be done with temperatures not lower than 15 and not higher than 30 degrees, below that it will not kill the mites, above you will have bad damage to the bees and possibly the queen

 

here in germany we have pretty strict laws regarding the treatment of varroa mites. in short: you are not allowed to treat while or before the honey supers are on. And by the way treating with formic acid will definately increase its residues in the honey

 

that means formic acid is used in late summer/early autumn when the honey supers have been removed and the mite infestations are heavy... During winter, when there is no brood we usually treat with oxalic acid killing most of the mites... then treatments are only done again in the next late summer. This usually works very well when the winter treatment worked...

 

the important thing to do with the nassenheider is to adjust the size of the U shaped wick to get the daily evaporation rate right! too less means no effect, too much means death for the queen.

we have very similar frames than the langstroth (called ""zander"). 2 Boxes (in german "Zargen") means they advise to use the big wick, 1 box the medium wick and for smaller nucs with less than 10 frames use the smallest one.

 

it also does work with 85% Acid!! then its very good for using in colder temperatures, just use a smaller wick with less evaporation. But 85% Acid is forbidden in germany (stupid law!)

 

you have to check the evaporation rate after 24 hours and then adjust the wick size! after that you can leave it for 10 - 12 days

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12 hours ago, Curious George said:

Hmmm Tom I would question that - I was always taught to add acid to water.

 

there is actually a little rhyme to help with that. freely translated so it rhymes in english:

first the water, then the acid, otherwise you will regret it.:)

 

5 hours ago, Christi An said:

But 85% Acid is forbidden in germany (stupid law!)

and the mites should be forbidden too.

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Hi Christian

What is your target evaporation rate and total dose for one treatment in a 2 box full depth Hive?

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Hi Philbee:

 

according to the operating instructions it should be 20 - 25 ml per day with 290 ml in the tank (fill completely)

 

by the way in my experience the big wig usually gave me 30- 40 ml per day so i hat do swap in the medium one. thats why it is important to check the rate after 24 h! sadle the wigs arent that accurate...

by the way i just found out: the instructions are available in english:

http://www.nassenheider.com/files/dokum/Gebrauchsanweisung_NV-professional_eng_2015.pdf

 

http://bee.nassenheider.com/artikels/view/1/0/0/0/0/149

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There are already some German beekeepers here Christi, I am good friends with 2 of them. Which part of NZ will you move to?

Edited by Alastair

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300mls in a block of Oasis foam enclosed in a ziplock bag with a cellulose wick giving 30mls a day is doable.

I havent been using FA since starting on OA/ GL  but may revisit it.

Its just such a dangerous acid to be handling

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14 hours ago, Alastair said:

There are already some German beekeepers here Christi, I am good friends with 2 of them. Which part of NZ will you move to?

Hi Alastair :-)

 

glad to hear that! after all making friends will be important when i get there.

 

im not sure where i will be as im still searching for a job. thankfully graduate mechanical engineers are needed in nz! Most likely ill end up in Auckland at the beginning. Id rather go to some more rural areas though. time will tell!

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On 02/09/2017 at 10:36 PM, tom sayn said:

i wonder if someone could write that into my post that it's wrong. that's really dangerous advice.

Sorted.

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Welcome to the forum @Christi An

Here in NZ we do everything on www.trademe.co.nz(job, rent, buy/sell a property, car, home appliances, furniture, bees........ more).

Somehow we do not like/use NZ ebay.

Also for new electronics this is a good site: www.pricespy.co.nz

Aaaa, and do not buy for yourself a German car unless you know to fix everything on it.

 

We do have a mild climate and the hives have brood all year around however here is colder in the winter than it is in Germany, even in Auckland. This winter we had for more then a week temps below +10C. Now that was cold, believe me. Ohhh, I forgot to tell you, I was writhing about the temp in the bedroom, outside is totally fine.

 

The Nassenheider kit is a bit dear here in NZ, this is why it is not used by so many bkpers.

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hi @Kiwi Bee ! :-)

thanks for all the info! im looking forward to learning beekeeping under this new circumstances. After all +10C doesnt sound so bad, getting the bees free of capped brood might be a good idea, or vaporizing oxalic acid several times (thats forbidden in germany despite its a very good treatment, so 50% of the beekeepers do it despite the law)

last winter we had about 5 or so weeks with below -10°C (outside ;-) ), at least the homes here have central heating, the bees also did survive that without a problem (i have bottom boards with stainless steel mesh here...)

 

yeah imported goods generally are more expensive in nz, here the nassenheider would cost approximately 30$, still thats cheaper than maqs in the long run right?

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