document: What happened to the bees this spring

[Alastair 8,627]

Here's an article by Randy Oliver addressing some of the problems American beekeepers are facing. First part is a pretty scary read, they have so many problems we don't have here (yet).

 

After that he discusses the neonicitinoid debate.

 

Alastair submitted a new resource:

 

What happened to the bees this spring (version 1.0) - article by Randy Oliver addressing some of the problems American beekeepers are facing

 

Read more about this resource...

[M4tt 4,941]

Good balanced article. Thanks Alastair

[tom sayn 1,261]

was trying to read this article, in particular the neonic part,

but i found it a bit exhausting to read

Randy is having a conversation with himself.

is this scientific? not at all. rhetoric and science don't mix.

if someone puts the two together, watch out.

[dansar 5,524]

The way I read it, it is the PPB's that had the problems. The ones that read how the season started and was likely to progress were the ones that came out of the season well.

[tom sayn 1,261]

The way I read it, it is the PPB's that had the problems. The ones that read how the season started and was likely to progress were the ones that came out of the season well.

who/what are PPB's, Dansar?

[dansar 5,524]

Piss Poor Beekeepers:D.....Yes he does say that!

[dansar 5,524]

page 12 PPB

[tom sayn 1,261]

i would say that's what monsanto & co. wants us to believe.

certainly helps to make beeks shut up.

to make it clear: i'm not saying neonics are the problem.

but if neonics are the problem then we would see the bees dying from natural causes / infections.

so i can't understand that someone is so sure that neonics aren't the problem.

-unless this person has made his mind up before he even looked into it.

and when that same person rubbishes someones study on neonics on his front web page and asks for funding, then i suspect that there is an agenda.

sometimes i'm surprised how many people follow Randy like a religion.

well, he certainly talks like some kind of reverent from the states all right.

[M4tt 4,941]

he certainly talks like some kind of reverent from the states all right.

True he does have an evangelistic quality to the way he delivers, but the way I understand it, he only works with evidence and facts, and the bit I like is that he has been dealing with varroa, successfully, for quite a while and I like learning and trying what he has to offer

 

From the article, what does concern me is the massive monoculture scale of the crops. Does not take much of a weather hiccup to throw the whole environment out of whack, and all the bees, farmers or whoever who depend on nature. Thankfully, our little country has little likelihood of heading down that path with the diversity of landscapes that we are fortunate enough to have here. Still need to keep up border security up though. EFB would add a whole new complication we don't need

[tom sayn 1,261]

but the way I understand it, he only works with evidence and facts, and the bit I like is that he has been dealing with varroa, successfully, for quite a while and I like learning and trying what he has to offer

 

it's great that he inspires people to try new things. we need more people that inspire.

i'm sure there is a great deal of practical knowledge we can learn from him.

but hardly anything of this is new. you could get this know how from many beek that had to deal with varroa before apistan or/and after apistan resistance. but he sure knows his stuff!

 

but there is also something i really don't like about this guy and i find it strange so few pick up on that.

it's so easy to become an expert on mites - it's no rocket science.

 

have to disagree with you understanding, he only works with evidence and facts.

he says a lot like " i've been talking to such and such "

there is an huge amount of rhetoric in what he says, and why is he so strong on this political agenda?

[Alastair 8,627]

I think he points out some holes that need to be pointed out, in the so called "facts", being presented to us by people who have made their minds up that all problems with bees are caused by neonicitiniods.

 

As I read through the list of these "facts", and him debunking many of them, I realised that I have already seen most of these "facts" on the internet, being presented by some pretty outspoken believers.

 

I understand that reading the article, and seeing them debunked, would be a very exhausting experience if it doesn't fit a persons own beliefs.

[Merk 666]

How do we know it's not cellphone radio frequencies doing the damage?

I notice he's very quiet about electromagnetic radiation in his article. I smell a rat.

[Janice 3,991]

How do we know it's not cellphone radio frequencies doing the damage?

I notice he's very quiet about electromagnetic radiation in his article. I smell a rat.

So use metal lids on your hives to fend them off . . .

[tom sayn 1,261]

I think he points out some holes that need to be pointed out, in the so called "facts", being presented to us by people who have made their minds up that all problems with bees are caused by neonicitiniods.

 

As I read through the list of these "facts", and him debunking many of them, I realised that I have already seen most of these "facts" on the internet, being presented by some pretty outspoken believers.

 

I understand that reading the article, and seeing them debunked, would be a very exhausting experience if it doesn't fit a persons own beliefs.

i believe you are right there. if i believed neonics to be harmless i would have enjoyed Randy's "conversation with himself" a lot more, i believe.

and i agree the "anti-neonics-party" are believers, too. nobody can be that sure how much of a factor neonics might or might not be. well at least that's what i believe. :whistle:

[Rob Atkinson 491]

It will be interesting to see if our bees all fall over this spring if seed treatment is so bad. There are thousands of hectares of being resown in treated pasture seed at the moment. I tried to get untreated seed but there was none in stock would have to be ordered in. Been waiting 3 weeks for the contractor who is working through his list

[Erin 1,290]

Balance and critical thinking is required in all things. If you focus 100% on neonics, you may miss the other things

that may also be killing your bees.

 

A bit like being so focused on the sodding great truck when you cross the road that you don't see the quiet little hybrid car that runs you down from the opposite direction.

[tony 2,001]

I'm interesteed what @dave has to say on this. I'm a Randy follower to a degree we need people like him putting out his/others findings, look how thick some of us are weve been told for years to alternate treaments and monitor mites,and look where we are now. By all means i'm not going to follow him of a cliff but but the guy has done alot of homework and tryed alot of things, and is willing to shear that with us, man some of that stuff could have taken us five years to learn for ourselves, the work is half done, As for Neonic i'm totaly aganst it but i'm not totaly sure it effects the bees directly as some think, but in roundabout way it effects everything i belive, we used to survive without this sort of s*#t why can't we now.? i think we can

[M4tt 4,941]

we used to survive without this sort of s*#t why can't we now.? i think we can

 

Back to the world population thing again. Lots of mouths to feed. Cant afford to let crops fail by being destroyed by insects

[tom sayn 1,261]

It will be interesting to see if our bees all fall over this spring if seed treatment is so bad. There are thousands of hectares of being resown in treated pasture seed at the moment. I tried to get untreated seed but there was none in stock would have to be ordered in. Been waiting 3 weeks for the contractor who is working through his list

that's very sad. means a lot of farmers will use seed coated seeds that would have rather not used it.

what do you think is the reason that uncoated seed is hard to come by all of the sudden?

 

don't know if it would show up in the bees strait away. maybe they have to winter on contaminated honey or raise their autumn bees on contaminated pollen? if it would be that strait forward i would think there wouldn't be that much confusion about it.

 

i asked the local nursery a wile back if there fruit trees are seed coated and he couldn't answer that.

some of the "problems" in this area started short after the new nursery started up. could be total coincidence.

[Aquila 612]

Interesting as the coating is Clay and pva glue, done that for a crust in the past too.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[tony 2,001]

Back to the world population thing again. Lots of mouths to feed. Cant afford to let crops fail by being destroyed by insects

not a good enough excuse for me,

[yesbut 6,232]

Ok, they do it for the money

[tom sayn 1,261]

Interesting as the coating is Clay and pva glue, done that for a crust in the past too.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

this nursery buys seedlings from Auckland, re-pots them and sells them a bit later.

so he wouldn't handle the seed himself. guess fruit trees are grafted anyway and he doesn't do that himself neither.

i kind of miss spoke a bit here. didn't really ask him about seed coating but asked if he new if they were treated with neonics or something like that and he doesn't.

sometimes he would spray pyretrum or what ever that stuff is called.

[Alastair 8,627]

Sounds like the way legends are born.

[Dave Black 3,520]

I'm interesteed what @dave has to say on this. I'm a Randy follower to a degree we need people like him putting out his/others findings..

 

I'm listening, just a bit occupied with harvest.

Tom Is clearly a disciple of Plato and uses the word rhetoric differently, I tend to follow Aristotle, logos, ethos, pathos and all that. Writing in ABJ Extra needs to be a bit evangelist - a bit rhetorical. It certainly isn't the antithesis of science. I think Randy has his priorities right though - varroa high, neonics low. I like that there are some positives in there - an action plan if you will. I'm sick of fear and the 'precautionary principle'.