Managing DWV in a TBH

[Timw 97]

A hive check 3 weeks ago revealed workers with DWV on the combs and crawling on the lawn in front of the hive.  the brood was scattered acros the combs as opposed to earlier solid patterns.The colony had come through the winter well having not taken any honey off and treated in the autumn somewhat reluctantly with Bayvarol. I decided on a 6 week OAV treatment every 3 days.  Today at 3 weeks there are still bees with DVW but fewrer and none on the lawn (for the past week). There were some 20-30 dead bees in cells as well as some dead pupae. The queen was produced by the colony in late 2018 and was seen today  - looking somewhat duller than in her youth. I plan to see the 6 weeks of OAV through but would appreciate comments / suggestions. I'm pretty eco so would be inclined to let things run their course but wonder about requeening at some point  - or leavingnthat up to the bees.   

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

7 minutes ago, Timw said:

A hive check 3 weeks ago revealed workers with DWV on the combs and crawling on the lawn in front of the hive.  the brood was scattered acros the combs as opposed to earlier solid patterns.The colony had come through the winter well having not taken any honey off and treated in the autumn somewhat reluctantly with Bayvarol. I decided on a 6 week OAV treatment every 3 days.  Today at 3 weeks there are still bees with DVW but fewrer and none on the lawn (for the past week). There were some 20-30 dead bees in cells as well as some dead pupae. The queen was produced by the colony in late 2018 and was seen today  - looking somewhat duller than in her youth. I plan to see the 6 weeks of OAV through but would appreciate comments / suggestions. I'm pretty eco so would be inclined to let things run their course but wonder about requeening at some point  - or leavingnthat up to the bees.   

Hi! Is there plenty of healthy bees\brood? Expanding?

My understanding, your hive is over the worst. Probably very sick early on. Suggest trying to get mite count, that will tell you if mite load is under control. You're doing plenty of oxalic treatments, possibly too many. 6 weeks every 3 days is a lot. 

Remember,seeing DWV does not mean you have a high mite load now, after 3 weeks. The virus hangs around for a while, and goes away once hive gets healthy.

Again, without an accurate mite count you're guessing what's going on. 

 

[PhilEvans 182]

5 hours ago, Timw said:

A hive check 3 weeks ago revealed workers with DWV on the combs and crawling on the lawn in front of the hive.  the brood was scattered acros the combs as opposed to earlier solid patterns.The colony had come through the winter well having not taken any honey off and treated in the autumn somewhat reluctantly with Bayvarol. I decided on a 6 week OAV treatment every 3 days.  Today at 3 weeks there are still bees with DVW but fewrer and none on the lawn (for the past week). There were some 20-30 dead bees in cells as well as some dead pupae. The queen was produced by the colony in late 2018 and was seen today  - looking somewhat duller than in her youth. I plan to see the 6 weeks of OAV through but would appreciate comments / suggestions. I'm pretty eco so would be inclined to let things run their course but wonder about requeening at some point  - or leavingnthat up to the bees.   

OAV treatment every three days for 6 week is a lot. Once a week for 4 weeks covers an overlapping brood cycle. I try to do that just after I remove any honey, and again in mid/late autumn. Bayvarol and apivar in mid August and mid February.

[Mummzie 736]

9 hours ago, Timw said:

but wonder about requeening at some point  - or leavingnthat up to the bees.   

you would probably do the hive a favour if you intervened and gave them a young queen to assist recovery from the virus 

[tommy dave 1,184]

no difference in managing dwv/varroa in a topbar hive or a langstroth hive.

It's nothing to do with the queen.

 

Agree with previous replies = find out what the varroa load is now. If not already sorted, then get the varroa under control, and keep it under control. Some people manage varroa successfully with oxalic vapour treatments only, some don't.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by tommy dave

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

4 hours ago, tommy dave said:

It's nothing to do with the queen.

It is to a certain extent.

The resident queen right now is getting on and won’t be laying as prolifically as a young one. 
Introducing a young queen will increase healthy bee numbers quickly. 

[yesbut 6,230]

And Queens can lay virus laden eggs too. 

[Wildflower 465]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:18 PM, yesbut said:

And Queens can lay virus laden eggs too. 

O.M.G. really?

[yesbut 6,230]

1 hour ago, Wildflower said:

O.M.G. really?

Yes because she gets bonked by virus laden drones.

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

9 hours ago, yesbut said:

Yes because she gets bonked by virus laden drones.

So, the message here is to select your partners very carefully.

[JohnF 727]

On 14/12/2020 at 9:44 PM, yesbut said:

Yes because she gets bonked by virus laden drones.

 

While it can be the ultimate in STIs (sexually transmitted infections . . as is nosema apparently), I believe the queen usually gets infected when the levels in a hive get to the point where she is fed infected food. It would be interesting to follow a hive and test the eggs for DWV  - I would imagine this would start or accelerate the actual collapse of the hive

[Maggie James 899]

On 11/12/2020 at 12:07 PM, Timw said:

The queen was produced by the colony in late 2018 and was seen today

I would definitely requeen this hive.  This old girl will be past her best by date!

 

On 11/12/2020 at 12:21 PM, Gino de Graaf said:

Remember,seeing DWV does not mean you have a high mite load now, after 3 weeks. The virus hangs around for a while, and goes away once hive gets healthy.

Again, without an accurate mite count you're guessing what's going on. 

I agree with this

 

On 12/12/2020 at 3:09 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

It is to a certain extent.

The resident queen right now is getting on and won’t be laying as prolifically as a young one. 
Introducing a young queen will increase healthy bee numbers quickly.

In this instance with an old queen, I definitely agree with this.  You will need to check you have young nurse bees in the hive, to aid acceptance of the queen.  Maybe transfer a healthy brood frame over from another hive.

 

22 hours ago, JohnF said:

It would be interesting to follow a hive and test the eggs for DWV  - I would imagine this would start or accelerate the actual collapse of the hive

To me, varroa is the start or the accelerate of this collapse of this hive.  My understanding from a number of well known beekeeping scientists is that varroa is the vector of viruses that affect bees.  The exception is Black Queen Cell Virus (and that's another story)

[Alastair 8,627]

On 16/12/2020 at 9:31 AM, JohnF said:

sexually transmitted infections . . as is nosema apparently

 

That's interesting.

 

Is that both the nosemas John?

[JohnF 727]

13 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

That's interesting.

 

Is that both the nosemas John?

 

Yep - and Nosema ceranae is transmitted at higher levels than Nosema apis. When we see dwindling hives, we also see higher levels of ceranae than apis also

[Timw 97]

Update. Requeened but 2 days after inserting cage found new queen deceased in cage. So possibly a new virgin queen was already there. I have decided to leave them bee and see if they produce a new queen if their own - this colony has successfully done that in the past.