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Do these dates work?


Wildflower
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17th October to 7th November ...Constant removal of swarm cells. QR

15th November ...Saw eggs but not Queen.

22nd or 23rd November NO EGGS. NO CELLS.

Gave them notched frame with eggs. 

27th Nov... They had removed eggs and fixed frame.Gave them another frame of Larvae and eggs.

3rd Dec... Again no sign of cell making. 

9th Dec...  Saw large Queen and a tiny tiny tiny patch of eggs. 

Newly mated Queen or sick old one? Or could the old Queen just have stopped laying for a bit because she intended to swarm but didn't?

Anyway the dates don't add up to me to be a newly mated Queen or can they?

Saw eggs on 15th Nov.  and by 9th Dec. A Queen plus a few eggs.

 

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Yes those dates work out perfectly. Also, congratulations for keeping such good records, it is way harder to solve peoples issues when all they know is that something happened "a few weeks ago".

 

That they would not raise your introduced frames of eggs into queen cells told us then and there that there was something about the hive preventing them from wanting to raise cells. Turns out they had a virgin.

 

How I take it is this. When you were killing swarm cells, you missed one. Then something happened to the mated queen, there are 4 main scenarios for that. She was accidentally killed during a hive inspection, the hive sent her out with a swarm, the hive tried to swarm but she couldn't fly and the bees eventually killed her, or the virgin killed her. So at 22 or 23 November you saw no eggs or queen cells and diagnosed the hive as queenless. 

 

But there was a virgin. Despite that you saw eggs on the 15th November, the virgin probably hatched some time around that or just after. By 9th December she was mated and laying. The time frame fits perfectly.

 

Some queen cells are very easy to miss, if they are not protruding but buried in and level with the rest of the comb, and sometimes tucked in a little irregular bit of comb.

Edited by Alastair
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20 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Yes those dates work out perfectly. Also, congratulations for keeping such good records, it is way harder to solve peoples issues when all they know is that something happened "a few weeks ago".

Thanks. I write my notes immediately (if possible) after checking hives. I think I will remember everything,but even with 5 hives I can quickly forget!!

She, from my point of view,looked like quite a decent size Queen. Hopefully she will do well. ?

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O.K. now damn it Dates perfect or not.... .Couldn't wait, so checked after 5 days. I can't see the tiny patch of eggs that  Martin saw. Eggs should now be larvae. I  seriously think it's a dud hive. Huge bee numbers. Honey city. But nothing other than that but grumoy bees. ?What is my best plan from here?....

Have a new Q in a nuc because I thought this might be the case.  But need to find this good looking no hoper Q first? Then timing? Should I paper  the new wee Queen soon? Or wait till she has got her little nuc going?And then paper the two together?

 

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Give it another week. Not seeing the first eggs is easy, you'll spot them better in a week.

 

Could also give them another frame of eggs just to test for queenlessness.

 

A question. Has this hive been treated witha lot of oxalic acid? Just, too much of that can cause eggs to disappear.

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14 hours ago, Alastair said:

Give it another week. Not seeing the first eggs is easy, you'll spot them better in a week.

 

Could also give them another frame of eggs just to test for queenlessness.

 

A question. Has this hive been treated witha lot of oxalic acid? Just, too much of that can cause eggs to disappear.

Nope,haven't done any oxalic acid. And thanks Alastair, good I came in for lunch. I was going to go out and pull the whole hive apart and break it down a bit. Find Queen and get her into one box so it was easier to moniter her.

Problem is that it was a strong hive with 4 x 3/4 boxes,that I had not bothered using a queen excluder.Using Tudors easy beekeeping method. Now not so easy,because I have 4 boxes to search through to find useless Queen with grumpy bees. 

Will leave them another week.

Then maybe do a breakdown

( would rather like some of the frames back if they are not using all of them) 

Or if you think it is a good idea to break hive down a bit,I could do tommorrow?

As for eggs? They didn't do anything with the last two lots i gave them,,because of Queen being there,and I have a new mated Queen waiting to see if she is needed,so will introduce her.

On that note...

If no eggs by next week,I kill queen and paper my girl above? I don"t have cage or anything.

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

The yesbut easy beekeeping method would be to petrol the troublesome hive and be done with it.

O.M.G.???????

I do let myself swat the odd nasty bee. But these bees are bringin' in the honey big time.

(nothing else to do!)

I am going to nail this bit of trouble! 

Not quite sure how yet? 

Alastair?

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