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What do beekeepers do with huge losses year after year


frazzledfozzle
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4 hours ago, Bighands said:

As far as i know as long as you pay the fee and agree to the conditions you cannot oppose the concession. The place to oppose it is if it is publically notified in the local paper.Ask DOC which paper the notification was in.Most of the beekeeping concessions are now dealt with in Wanganui I think, not the local office

I know all the guys pretty well and this was really just a big personal telling off .

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1 hour ago, ChrisM said:

good questions. I don't actually know. I must go and look at see what current prices are in Papamoa Plaza. So far as I can tell each Bin Inn uses entirely its own pricing plans and so may not relate to your one. Seems a little illogical to price the jars on the shelf to be cheaper (?). I think the bulk foods and whole foods area has had good growth in this covid era once they were allowed to trade again.

Check out the Fill Your Own at the poopermarkets. A packaged item often good quality can be cheaper than the bulk. It's perception and  a way to reduce packaging. And often a long walk back to return the bulk...sure it's a design thing. 

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2 hours ago, ChrisM said:

So far as I know outbound tourists heading home on a cruise liner or an aeroplane do not have their baggage searched, nor do they need to make any declaration to NZ Customs on exit. So if tourism does restart, what will actually be done to prevent them taking home goods that they purchased legally in NZ along with their other belongings, souvenirs etc?

Actually I stand corrected. You can still take it with you, the problems arise with sending it.

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5 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

one of the problems we have right now is too many men and their dogs packing and selling their honey locally driving the price down for all beekeepers and saturating the market so that no ones making any money or shifting much product.

Not sure why or how it's driving down the price. 3 to 5 dollars per kg bulk or 20 dollars kg in 2 jars?

 

So the financial sale of 1 drum equals how many jars exatly?

 

It also doesn't have to be about sitting in the rain, it could be click and collect, gift vouchers, informal tours of the honeyshed, tasting sessions, building a story, getting customer buy in to a product they want, not need. Not a 5 dollar jar off the supermarket shelf, but a 20 bux version off the local guy because he looks after xyz other farmers businesses and plays a part in the local community.

 

If you can't sell a "support local" story now, you never will.

 

If the industry is that fragmented, get together. You have a built in membership numbers here, and lead the way with each others support. Tell the NZ people why small individual honey is a better sell than the multinational companies and big brands. Create a unique reason for someone to buy your product.

 

Not everyone wants brands, not everyone wants cheapest, but what they do want is a reason that aligns with their own ideals.

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6 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:


which is really great but in reality that’s not going to work for commercial beekeepers who have tons of the stuff to shift.

one of the problems we have right now is too many men and their dogs packing and selling their honey locally driving the price down for all beekeepers and saturating the market so that no ones making any money or shifting much product.

um....Trademe?

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Think of it another way. How much money do you expect each beehive to make? To get to your desired figure ,you have to ask yourself how can I achieve this.To get to your desired figure you have to start thinking outside the honey box. I KNOW i can sell Honey Dew for a good profit.I would probably sell close to 3 tonne/year and Rata gosh it just flies out the door. if I can do this on the West Coast surely you can do that else where in the country.

  Ok it takes time to build up a reputation but the honey should sell itself you are just the person promoting it. I was at the Motueka Market and several people tasted 4 other beekeepers products and came back to me saying that mine tasted the best even though it was more expensive.

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Sitting up here in the northern hemisphere reading this thread gets me wondering.  What percentage of overall beekeeping income is derived from shaking packages in March and April for shipping to our part of the world ?  On the Canadian prairies a lot of folks recover from winter losses by simply 'buy NZ packages in March / April'.

 

The flights stopped this spring, and it left a lot of folks scrambling to figure out other means.  Some simply downsized a bit, others were more aggressive in the split than in a normal year.

 

wondering how much this affected the bottom line of various producers...

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Last night I was talking to my mate over in Canada.

Sold his crop of Canola honey to the Co-op for $6.21/kg.. NZD.

 

So when a local packer offers me $3.00/kg for clover with no Terramycin   I think that's a bit rude ....

 

Just saying !

 

 

 

Let's say like was here couple years ago ( doesn't mean still isn't). You buy 20000kg of honey at price for 5 nzd and drive it couple hundred kms to Germany for 10 nzd per kg. Let's say you get so soft cushion for costs of transport.. And as some middleman bragged here ( he couldn't resist) with each truck of honey sent to Germany he got new BMW car..

Our system is corrupt, imploding.. 

Forgot to mention, the middlemen pay the honey to beeks after they receive money from German buyer...

Edited by Goran
adding some text
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13 hours ago, Grant said:

That... Right there!

Come on. Look at the non merino wool industry. It's costing them for the first time ever to remove wool.

They should all tell a story, sell jerseys, make there own carpets...

 

Similar to honey, the marketer and shops push cheaper, higher profit margin synthetic carpets. They actively steer you away from wool. 

 

We do need a group of people who push non Manuka. Though those keen folk are currently in the Manuka game. 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Gerry said:

Sitting up here in the northern hemisphere reading this thread gets me wondering.  What percentage of overall beekeeping income is derived from shaking packages in March and April for shipping to our part of the world ?  On the Canadian prairies a lot of folks recover from winter losses by simply 'buy NZ packages in March / April'.

 

The flights stopped this spring, and it left a lot of folks scrambling to figure out other means.  Some simply downsized a bit, others were more aggressive in the split than in a normal year.

 

wondering how much this affected the bottom line of various producers...

 

Be mostly a minor income for Beekeepers providing bees to the larger packers and exporters. Be a bigger loss for those. Can you source enough nuc colonies from canadian producers? Can you import bees from America?

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I love nothing better than doing honey tastings. It’s great to watch & listen to people try different honeys like squash, citrus, rewarewa, we do kamahi, tawari & putaptaweta (sp?) I call it all the white flowers at Christmas time.  We also have bush honey from different areas within the Gisborne region. They all taste different. If people haven’t ever had anything other than supermarket honey then they are blown away (there are still some out there.) I would love so see a local honey trail, just like a wine trail (or maybe  combined? - there’s a thought have any of you wine producing areas thought of getting your honey on the wine trail?)

 

 However, I’m a beekeeper, not a shop keeper or a stall holder. 

There are already 3 honey sellers at our farmers market. 
 

What we need to move the non-Manuka honey off shore, as the market can only absorb so much here.

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4 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

 

Re wool, I think it has to come back. All that synthetic fibre eventually breaks down into tiny micro particles, much of them find their way to trhe sea, and end up in the stomachs of tiny organisims, killing the bottom level of the food chain. Wool does not do that. 

Bremworth carpets have ditched all synthetics and gone back to all wool. A great move, hopefully our wool industry will return to days of old.

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On 17/11/2020 at 7:55 PM, Grant said:

It's a weird sector. Plenty of complaining and to a certain extent apathy.

Innovation and tall poppies get chopped down or become so ultra protective about their idea that it doesn't take off.

 

Here is a classic example, look at the comments 

Now go to the potential suppliers website and read about "our honey"

 

Quote

Our wildflower honey is our most prolific honey and comes in 3 varieties: liquid, creamed and Lemon. The creamed honey is silky smooth and great for cold winters to spread on toast. The Lemon variety is fantastic spooned into hot water for a comforting drink or spread on toast with butter.

Due to the huge production of wildflower honey in NZ, here at 3 Feathers we have also created some incredible creamed honey varieties. Our creamed Raspberry and creamed Vanilla honeys were launched in August and have been such a success we have sold out at many shows! Try it today, you won’t be disappointed!

 

So it clearly states the process used, that its something they have created. I just wonder how damaging to the sector, and possibly the individual business linked to - who has clearly tried to come up with an innovative idea to sell the wildflower honey post covid - these sort of public comments are. We should be supporting each other and applauding the idea and even jumping on the bandwagon, heaven forbid!

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On 19/11/2020 at 4:00 PM, Bron said:

I love nothing better than doing honey tastings. It’s great to watch & listen to people try different honeys like squash, citrus, rewarewa, we do kamahi, tawari & putaptaweta (sp?) I call it all the white flowers at Christmas time.  We also have bush honey from different areas within the Gisborne region. They all taste different. If people haven’t ever had anything other than supermarket honey then they are blown away (there are still some out there.) I would love so see a local honey trail, just like a wine trail (or maybe  combined? - there’s a thought have any of you wine producing areas thought of getting your honey on the wine trail?)

 

its always disappointing that commercial beeks seem to  have to  blend their honey.

i know that logistically it would be uneconomic to do it any other way.

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On 27/11/2020 at 10:04 AM, kaihoka said:

its always disappointing that commercial beeks seem to  have to  blend their honey.

i know that logistically it would be uneconomic to do it any other way.


I have never seen so much blending of honey .

it’s a necessity of course because no one will buy bush honey but throw it in with some manuka and  wala you now have manuka honey ....which no one wants to buy either  :) 

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On 16/11/2020 at 10:19 AM, frazzledfozzle said:

@jamesc it’s 10am on a beautiful day and I’m about to go out and split my cell raisers into singles ready for the honey flow.

 

it’s unheard of for me to be sitting inside on a beautiful day at the busiest time of the year.

 

We have downsized heaps the drop in demand for honey coincided nicely with us losing over 200 hives during winter using Oxalic and glycerine staples.

 

We haven’t sold any honey from last season and are basically hanging in there hoping for a crap season for everyone nz wide to maybe stimulate demand for all the honey sitting in sheds right now. ( sorry to all of you who are hoping for a boomer season I realise it’s selfish hoping for bad things )

 

Ive said it many times before but I have never had anyone able to explain what’s happened to our offshore markets.

 

Before MPI brought in a standard we sold all our honey every year to more than one buyer and all honey achieved good money.

 

When MPI brought in the standard I thought the price for “real” manuka honey would increase and demand would go through the roof because there would be heaps less of it.

 

The opposite has happened for us.

No demand and any offer we have had is 50% of what it was in the past.

 

So we aren’t selling just sitting on it.

we have pulled out of areas because in three seasons we haven’t had a mono so no point in being there.

 

Im sure something has happened in the international market for demand to be so slow.

 

A quick google search will tell you prices haven’t dropped offshore so there’s a lot of money being made by the middleman right now but I guess it’s swings and roundabouts and right now it’s the middleman’s time to make some good coin.

 

anyhow that’s where we are at.

not chasing native,

sitting on what we have 

hoping for a bad season nationwide.

 

be thankful you don’t live next door, next step is human sacrifice !

 

How much Mono Manuka do you have that passes MPI? What grades and what volume? We are being continuously so is it your price expectation that prevents a sale?

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On 16/11/2020 at 10:19 AM, frazzledfozzle said:

@jamesc it’s 10am on a beautiful day and I’m about to go out and split my cell raisers into singles ready for the honey flow.

 

it’s unheard of for me to be sitting inside on a beautiful day at the busiest time of the year.

 

We have downsized heaps the drop in demand for honey coincided nicely with us losing over 200 hives during winter using Oxalic and glycerine staples.

 

We haven’t sold any honey from last season and are basically hanging in there hoping for a crap season for everyone nz wide to maybe stimulate demand for all the honey sitting in sheds right now. ( sorry to all of you who are hoping for a boomer season I realise it’s selfish hoping for bad things )

 

Ive said it many times before but I have never had anyone able to explain what’s happened to our offshore markets.

 

Before MPI brought in a standard we sold all our honey every year to more than one buyer and all honey achieved good money.

 

When MPI brought in the standard I thought the price for “real” manuka honey would increase and demand would go through the roof because there would be heaps less of it.

 

The opposite has happened for us.

No demand and any offer we have had is 50% of what it was in the past.

 

So we aren’t selling just sitting on it.

we have pulled out of areas because in three seasons we haven’t had a mono so no point in being there.

 

Im sure something has happened in the international market for demand to be so slow.

 

A quick google search will tell you prices haven’t dropped offshore so there’s a lot of money being made by the middleman right now but I guess it’s swings and roundabouts and right now it’s the middleman’s time to make some good coin.

 

anyhow that’s where we are at.

not chasing native,

sitting on what we have 

hoping for a bad season nationwide.

 

be thankful you don’t live next door, next step is human sacrifice !

 

'A quick google search' - this tells you nothing other than retail price or recommended retail price. This does not indicate and correlate directly with the wholesale price achieved in each country/market.  

You need to stop believing your own hype. The RRP does not reflect the price achieved by what you call the 'Middle Man' the producer/packer. Only when the producer packer sells directly to the end consumer does the RRP have a direct relationship to revenue. 

You also refer to the 'MiddleMan" as singular. Depending on the market or geographical region the channel to the consumer can become more complicated with with multiple 'middle men' before the retailer offers to the consumer. There is no singular global solution so your reflection based on a google search of RRP is completely flawed. 

 

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I been trying to flick off a bit of honey recently ..... and to be honest it's quite hard work ..... somewhere along the line we fell out of the loop on what packers are looking for , but if our facilities and recording systems obtain an RMP and export cert every year, it sort of means that the quality control and systems  are  there.

To be honest, I have no enthusiasm for taking honey off this year, and am contemplating digging a big hole and shoving the bees and honey into it along with 20litres of diesel and a match.  

Bye Bye Hampsterwheel !

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

I been trying to flick off a bit of honey recently ..... and to be honest it's quite hard work ..... somewhere along the line we fell out of the loop on what packers are looking for , but if our facilities and recording systems obtain an RMP and export cert every year, it sort of means that the quality control and systems  are  there.

To be honest, I have no enthusiasm for taking honey off this year, and am contemplating digging a big hole and shoving the bees and honey into it along with 20litres of diesel and a match.  

Bye Bye Hampsterwheel !

@jamesc, it sounds like you're in desperate need of another Wakachangi or two! Digging a big hole is a lot of work too and hey, you won't escape the hampsterwheel anyway, life is a hampsterwheel.....

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

I been trying to flick off a bit of honey recently ..... and to be honest it's quite hard work ..... somewhere along the line we fell out of the loop on what packers are looking for , but if our facilities and recording systems obtain an RMP and export cert every year, it sort of means that the quality control and systems  are  there.

To be honest, I have no enthusiasm for taking honey off this year, and am contemplating digging a big hole and shoving the bees and honey into it along with 20litres of diesel and a match.  

Bye Bye Hampsterwheel !

dont take the honey off leave it on and just do a varroa /afb check/treatment and go enjoy your family for a bit

 

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Just now, Dennis Crowley said:

dont take the honey off leave it on and just do a varroa /afb check/treatment and go enjoy your family for a bit

 

Last minute change for me, so I'm not doing any manuka this season, so have decided to leave hives in the paddock.

Most time i've spent with family this time of year, being run ragged by 3yr old grandaughter, woulndn't change a thing.

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