Employer reluctant to supply EpiPens

[Maggie James 874]

I wonder if that "well known AP2" could tell a few stories about other well known AP2s

[gordie 12]

Apparently another common mistake is getting it the wrong way around and injecting yourself instead of the person whom you are trying to inject!

[Alastair 8,556]

Ouch!

[Grant 4,275]

4 hours ago, Alastair said:

That's interesting Grant. Who else would need them other than beekeepers?

Anyone can have anaphylaxis. Usually to eating dairy, eggs, nuts or seafood.

[Maggie James 874]

2 hours ago, Grant said:

Anyone can have anaphylaxis. Usually to eating dairy, eggs, nuts or seafood.

Heard of one instance the other week - Ingesting Voltaren anti inflammatory tablets

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,803]

10 hours ago, Maggie James said:

Heard of one instance the other week - Ingesting Voltaren anti inflammatory tablets

What? as a cure or as a case of anaphylaxis.

 

[Maggie James 874]

1 hour ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

What? as a cure or as a case of anaphylaxis.

Anaphylaxis due to Voltaren tablets.  The chopper had to be called for an airlift.  

 

I can't understand why you can buy Voltaren over the counter.  I have heard of all sorts of nasty side effects over the years.  Yet there seems to be some impetus to make paracetamol, a much safer drug, prescription only.  

Edited November 22 by Maggie James

[Sailabee 1,098]

One of my granddaughters went into anaphylaxis with mango - had no idea that could be a trigger - my daughter was choosing between fire station and ER Dept as to which was closest - lucky she is in central Auck.

 

[Bighands 1,053]

On 22/11/2020 at 2:51 PM, Alastair said:

That's interesting Grant. Who else would need them other than beekeepers?

Forestry workers used to carry them due to wasp stings

[Maggie James 874]

If employers, beekeepers, clubs etc are all going to race out and purchase an epipen, bear in mind that adrenaline can have fatal implications if the recipient has a history of high blood pressure.  So, if people are going to put pressure on employers to carry epipens, then perhaps there should be regular blood pressure checks!  Otherwise, the outcome could be just as devastating as an anaphylactic reaction.

Edited November 23 by Maggie James

[Maggie James 874]

I know of a relatively young beekeeper who was injected with adrenaline, and unbeknownst to the beekeper they not only had high blood pressure but a blocked artery.  This could have been fatal for the beekeeper, but this episode not only induced another medical problem, but diagnosis by emergency services found another potentially fatal condition.  This person not only survived, but beekeeps still today.

Edited November 24 by Maggie James

[Grant 4,275]

What absolute complete and utter crap.

 

Your primary first aid response is ABC

 

Airway

Breathing
Circulation
 

Anaphylaxis is an acute, potentially life-threatening systemic allergic reaction. Other than the upper airway obstruction (swelling), cardiovascular collapse (low blood pressure) is the second most life-threatening anaphylactic reaction and both require urgent treatment.

 

So as you can see, if the patient is having upper airway obstruction, their airway will be compromised. If they cannot breathe - they die. Then their bp drops affecting their blood perfusion - they die.

 

There are no contraindications for the administration of adrenaline
In medicine, a contraindication is a condition or factor that serves as a reason to withhold a certain medical treatment due to the harm that it would cause the patient.

 

In the situation where someone is having a life threatening anaphylactic reaction and you have access to the medication available to treat someone who could potentially die in front of you, you give it. Otherwise you will be explaining to the coroner why you didn't give it.

 

Having a history of high blood pressure is not a reason to not give life saving adrenaline to someone having an anaphylactic reaction.

 

 

[Alastair 8,556]

Yup, if I was about to die of anaphylaxis, I'd want an adrenaline shot, blocked artery or not.

 

The instructions on my adrenaline kit say nothing about checking for high blood pressure.

[Grant 4,275]

11 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

I know of a relatively young beekeeper who was injected with adrenaline, and unbeknownst to the beekeper they not only had high blood pressure but a blocked artery.  This could have been fatal for the beekeeper, but this episode diagnosed a potentially fatal condition.  This person still beekeeps today.

 

Just stop please. You followed up your initial comment because I happened to give you a thumbs down. You maybe a competent beekeeper, but now you're crossing into my territory and your comments, if taken out of context, could lead to someone dying because the person in a position to help paused or delayed giving adrenaline when needed, due to misguided comments about high blood pressure.

 

This is not a factor in the event of an anaphylactic reaction 

[john berry 5,571]

I once had an anaphylactic reaction to a drug being administered in hospital. It was the scariest thing I've ever been through. Fortunately the doctor realised something was wrong and stop the intravenous drug and I came right pretty quickly but I would not like to do that again.

[Maru Hoani 632]

A truck driver got stung a few kms away from me today and collapsed, had to get helicoptered away, nearly an hour wait.

Anyway, I had a visit asking if I had an EpiPen and said nah they're too expensive at 160 every six months and you have to order them at the pharmacy which means two trips into town, the guy should have one on him if its life threatening just like having diabetes, you should have insulin in your vehicle, if one of my family members was allergic I would have one but since I dont even know anyone who's allergic why should I spend hard earned money on such a poor season, I'll be lucky to cover costs as is.

[Grant 4,275]

4 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

EpiPen and said nah they're too expensive at 160 every six months and you have to order them at the pharmacy which means two trips into town, the guy should have one on him if its life threatening just like having diabetes, you should have insulin in your vehicle, if one of my family members was allergic I would have one but since I dont even know anyone who's allergic

 

EpiPen costs 120 and lasts in excess of 12 months usually. That's nothing near the 320 you estimated.

 

You order them online from Queenstown with free nationwide delivery, which means no trips into town.

 

Additionally ACC would reimburse you had you used it on the guy who was choppered out, or anyone else.

 

Not everyone has a history of being allergic. You could have had 200 stings before with nothing and sting 201 causes a reaction with no prior history.

 

However it's turning into an interesting thread now because it's highlighting the sheer lack of any understanding of allergic reactions in the industry. 

 

You don't give insulin to someone in a diabetic emergency, especially in the middle of nowhere.

 

You guys seriously need to consider attending workplace first aid, just to dispell some of the old wives tales you run with, because that's 2 people we've killed in 2 days just in a discussion thread

 

 

[Alastair 8,556]

Yes the price of them is not so bad now.

 

Used to be $700 at one stage because a rather nasty guy bought the company and jacked the price. Which was nice for him, because in certain workplaces in the US, and in schools there, they were legally required to have an epipen on site. But there was a court action and the guy had to drop the price by several multiples. 

 

I think the $700 price barrier was why they were not widely held in NZ, but at $120 it's a lot more affordable.

 

There is also that psycholgical factor where most people do not like waste, and the reality is that nearly all of them will be wasted. But it's just that one time.

[Grant 4,275]

55 minutes ago, Alastair said:

There is also that psycholgical factor where most people do not like waste, and the reality is that nearly all of them will be wasted. But it's just that one time.

Yep, like a helmet, or chaps, or an airbag.

[Bron 2,777]

We carry an epipen (it’s due for replacement) just in case. For our farmers or us. We will then carry both until I get the one after. My chemist also said to get a couple of antihistamines in ASAP as well. 
It’s cheap insurance for a better outcome. How would you feel if you could have, and something dire happened?

Edited Wednesday at 10:04 PM by Bron

[Grant 4,275]

I've put some resources up, including a free online training program at
 

 

 

[Gino de Graaf 1,004]

I will find storing an epipen difficult.

Vehicles get too hot. Maybe in a side box? Tho they are not 100% weather proof, can get damaged/lost easier and also suffer heat if the sun hits it.

Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

[Grant 4,275]

Adrenaline autoinjector storage, expiry and disposal

WWW.ALLERGY.ORG.AU

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Adrenaline autoinjectors (e.g. EpiPen) should be stored in a cool dark place (such as an insulated wallet) at room temperature, between 15 and 25 d...

 

Might have to be some thought to that, although a thermally lined food bag should remain at a relatively constant temperature. Or even a small chilly bin type box (not chilled) to act as a thermal barrier?

[Gino de Graaf 1,004]

1 hour ago, Grant said:

Adrenaline autoinjector storage, expiry and disposal

WWW.ALLERGY.ORG.AU

---

Adrenaline autoinjectors (e.g. EpiPen) should be stored in a cool dark place...

 

Might have to be some thought to that, although a thermally lined food bag should remain at a relatively constant temperature. Or even a small chilly bin type box (not chilled) to act as a thermal barrier?

That could work. Vehicles can get very warm, having a small temp gauge inside to monitor on those days.

[Alastair 8,556]

I think the only solution would be a small container under the deck.