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James Withington

Okay it's time to PANIC

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I know this has probably been answered time and time again but i need a soultion. You see my hive has been battling varroa thoroughout the winter. In the past 10 weeks I ahve performed the following treatments. 8 weeks of bayrol and then two weeks of formic acid. I have re-wetted the pads twice already. A check today reveals another 50 mites in one of the inspectiion trays.

 

So can some please tell me how to save this hive please. Clearly the treatment is working but concerned at the number of mites falling each day. Apart from continuing with the formic acid, how can i boost the hive. I have already swapped my two hives over the get the forgaing bees to enter the infected hive. I am now too keen on joining the two hive but just need a little resasurance that i am doing the right thing.

 

Any suggestions, okay most logical suggestions are welcome. Thanks guys.

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I know this has probably been answered time and time again but i need a soultion. You see my hive has been battling varroa thoroughout the winter. In the past 10 weeks I ahve performed the following treatments. 8 weeks of bayrol and then two weeks of formic acid. I have re-wetted the pads twice already. A check today reveals another 50 mites in one of the inspectiion trays.

 

 

how would you describe the condition of poorer hive?frames of bees,how much brood,stores did you do a nmf before bayvarol went in.

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The poorer hive has a good laying queen with brood building, the store are good considering the reduced numbers within the hive. In relation to the mite numbers before treating were high, i could visibly see a number of bees with deformed wings, a check of the drone brood cells found mites inside them, clearly visible. To answer the question, no, no mite fall was conducted prior to bayvarol going in.

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James just to clarify you have one hive that was badly infested with varroa and another hive that wasn't?

 

You have treated with Bayvarol and formic and are still getting high natural mite fall?

 

Are you still seeing mites on drone brood? is the brood thats hatching now healthy?

 

Is your mite situation under control now and you are just wanting to boost your hive strength or are you still battling high varroa levels in that hive?

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sounds like a severe attack of varroa that has weakened the hive,If you are confident it's strong enough to survive ie:enough bees etc I would continue with treatment for another week at least to do a full brood cycle then maybe a 24hr Bayvarol strip if not happy with counts,there are some hives that seem to harbour higher varroa numbers than norm for some reason and if it is one of those you could be better to look at combining it.

Its probably not ideal to be finishing treatments this early in spring before the main flow but monitoring is the key.

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On to my fourth formic acide treatment and shortening the time between doses. Emptied the inspection trays on both hives this moring about 10am and checked again about 2.30pm. About 15-20 mites in each tray with several still clearly alive and walkign around the try. Also discovered a bee emerging from the hive with deformed wings and could see a mite on its back. Hmmmm. Still getting high mite falls. Have also inspected the brood and seeing good brood area and a lot of eggs so the hive is still battling the mite. Almost at the end of what the hell to do. You would think with two Bayvrol treatment and four formic acids you'd expect to see very little varroa in the hive.

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Have you treated the other hive? Could there be reinfestation happening?

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Got some photos, sounds like really bad genetics if that was mine I would be getting a new Q, im concerned you are still getting wing virus if we could get some photos of strength of both and brood etc, it would be concerning me that you have chemical reisistance

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Umm Yeah deformed wings are not an official reckoning of varoa according to the literature, although I use it as an indicator both at work and with my personal hives. If you still consider your varoa hive viable I would recommend treating with apistan as it is much more powerful than bayvarol although in the same chemical family, I would consider this an extreme treatment but I'm in the south island and hopefully mites have less resistance here, also consider replacing your queen with a cell or a caged queen possibly brought from a commercial beekeeper with queens to spare(hour queen may have a virus or genetic defeciences). On a side note I don't know anthing about formic acid as it gives me a headache whenever I open a hive which has it in.

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very hard to give good advice through second hand information.

there is a lot of different scenarios possible.

 

possibly you have chemicial resistance and havy reinvasion at the same time.

sounds like you definitly have at least one of the two.

 

running a second treatment with apistan or bayv. might clear this question,

and if chem.resitance has not been recorded around wellington, jet,

you could provid important info to your fellow beeks.

has you hive always been in wellington?

you could also contact Mark Goodwin, who is interested in resistant mites and maybe very helpful?

best scenario, the bayv. cures your hive and your hive and you have peace.

 

formic is not a good treatment for early spring. doesn't work in cool, moist coditions.

have you tried messuring your evaporation by weighing the pad?

guess you use 65%?

you may have to increase evaporation surface (don't know your pads, maybe use two of them)

you want to evaporate aprox. 15ml (1,5 g)and rather through the warms of the day than through the warms of the hive. ( a strong hive more, a week hive less)

entrance should be about 10mm high and all the way open, no open mesh flour or other holes.

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you could use Apivar there is no resistance and although the treatment period is relatively long at least it works :)

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If it was my colony I'd remove & freeze the frames keeping bees within hive , and giving them the Mortein treatment, then wash out the box/s. Start again. It's early in the year still.

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very hard to give good advice

you want to evaporate aprox. 15ml (1,5 g)

15 ml is 15g, sorry

as i said, good advice is hard to get

 

does anybody know if resistant mites have been recorded in wellington?

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no idea officially but considering resistance has been with us 3-4 years then i have no doubt most of the north island will have it.

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Any suggestions, okay most logical suggestions are welcome. Thanks guys.

 

well, anyhow, you know what to do now,James

double up your formic acid treatment, then nuc them with bayvarol- apistan and apivar strips.

after that finish what you started with flyspray. anything else we can help you with?

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well, anyhow, you know what to do now,James

double up your formic acid treatment, then nuc them with bayvarol- apistan and apivar strips.

after that finish what you started with flyspray. anything else we can help you with?

 

;)

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I expect to see more of this sort of problem, there was a point earler asking if there where any counts before treatment, this is such a good point, however you do it, it gives you a base to work off, you know if your treatments are working or not, as a hobbyist this should be achiveable, commercial guys have obvious issues but still face the same problems.

I heard a comment the other day we still have to treat so why bother counting, fair enough statement but i bet this person will still be spending a fortune on treatments in the next few years. As james is finding now he has used bayvarol and formic now wants or needs to do another formic or synthetic this hive is costing a small fortune, if you applied that to a commercial scale you will be in trouble.

Food for thought

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You might wish to try drone/brood trapping, If you need to be shown how (not that I'm proficent as still learning myself) I'm just up the coast in Paraparaumu. No chemicals needed just a drone frame/foundation (2 per hive is better)

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You might wish to try drone/brood trapping, If you need to be shown how (not that I'm proficent as still learning myself) I'm just up the coast in Paraparaumu. No chemicals needed just a drone frame/foundation (2 per hive is better)

It would be critical for frame removal irrespective of weather conditions? Otherwise it is mite breeding. Set appointment on cell phone! At what days from putting the frame in do you remove it for freezing?

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It would be critical for frame removal irrespective of weather conditions? Otherwise it is mite breeding. Set appointment on cell phone! At what days from putting the frame in do you remove it for freezing?

The time window for removing the frame is quite generous up to 23 days from putting the frame in the hive and when most of the cells are capped (that is if its already drawn and a few more days if its only foundation) I don't panic if a few drones are emerging or some are not yet capped so long as the majority of the cells are capped.

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drone frame might keep you varroa number low,

but i don't think it's a useful tool to cure heavy varroa.

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drone frame might keep you varroa number low,

but i don't think it's a useful tool to cure heavy varroa.

Agreed, however, every varroa that dies is one less to breed and may slow down treatment time.

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Update: Another bout of formic acid appiled yesterday. Mite fall today on inspection was 24 in one hive and 35 in the other hive. just for your information I have the hive doctor matts and using one inspection trya in the bottom. I also closed the enterance yesterday down to a third to help the fromic acid infiltrate the hive better.

 

thanks to everyone for thier input on tihs topic.

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Did you do counts before you treated

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