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Oh, thanks for that link Jamo, and guess I owe Agrisea an apology.

 

When I investigated using it some years ago no research had been done, and i had (wrongly) assumed that was still the case.

 

So looks like I'll have to eat crow on this one, admit I didn't have all my facts, and give Agrisea my endorsement for having done the work and showing that their product can reduce N. cerana, and boost brood production. Good for them ?.

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There has been a lot of talk on and off about different additives you can add to sugar when feeding. This includes everything from pollen substitute and seaweed to various methods of stopping the suga

And hey, never let it be said that I am one of those boorish people who refuse to fess up when they are wrong ?

I don't use sprays at all around my hives. Most of my sites have stock and they take care of the problem but those that don't I either grub the grass out from the front of the hive which takes a few s

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I think the agrisea results could vary a lot with individual sites if the amino acids complemented those available at the site. If they duplicated those at the site, the supplement would be pointless. So it may not work at all for some sites while being terrific at others. So far I don't think there is any research about that quantity there is of each amino acid in agrisea, nor what proportions of amino acids they can use. I have been taught that the bees cook with a variety of recipes, but in any mono-cropping situation they can end up with too much of one amino acid and not enough of others. It is also a bit confusing for a non-biologist to understand how the bee separates the amino acids from the feed in order to store 'nectar' in cells and to feed amino acids to developing brood. Regardless the reseach seems to show that it is possible even if I'm clueless how they could filter out 20 to 40ml per 1000ml to the separate uses.

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21 hours ago, Alastair said:

Oh, I get it. You think I am a big supporter of oxalic staples. 

 

Most people here would think I'm the opposite.

 

What I really am is a supporter of TESTING AND TRIALING oxalic staples properly, before they are unleashed on the public.

 

My position is entirely consistent with my position on Agrisea. No pots and kettles.

 

22 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Would I buy anything untested, unproven, and unresearched, based on nothing but glowing customer reviews? NO.

I was commenting on your hard statement about un-researched products, which is what ox staples are at the moment which you are playing around with, that was all.

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Oh i see. I'm hard about product being sold, peoples money being taken, when no testing has been done, and the seller essentially does not know if they are taking people money for nothing.

 

I'm investigating OA strips, at my own risk, no cost to anyone else. Different entirely, nothing wrong with it.

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This post about un-researched products got me thinking today. This is my take on what happens.

As a scientist (I'm not one) you want to know a cause and a reaction that can be measured and put on paper and replicated.

As beekeepers with years under our belts, we get to know our sites and hives. We see how our sites and hives react to different seasons good and bad and I think have a good handle on what we need to do for each specific site when the different pollen's and nectar come in, or don't, and what to do. When we use a product in the hives I am fairly certain we can get a feeling that there is or is not a change to how the hives react. This is due to past history and knowledge of the sites. All my hives are in pine forests and are slow to come away in the spring, but when the rewarewa starts if I don't get a move on, they swarm or plugout before kiwi pollination, i don't target the honey I use it to build up hives.

But there is a month or two before the rewa starts and in the past (I've had these sites for 20+ years), they were always hard work to get up. But since I started to use pollen patties and other nutritional products in the early part of the season, they are much easier to build up. Now i can't produce an exact measurement, as over all the sites it changes a little, but as a whole it seems easier to bring hives up.

I'm not going to call it a scientific experiment, but it has given me just as much confidence as if it was.

Someone else sites would react totally different and that beek would say I'm wasting money. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

This post about un-researched products got me thinking today. This is my take on what happens.

As a scientist (I'm not one) you want to know a cause and a reaction that can be measured and put on paper and replicated.

As beekeepers with years under our belts, we get to know our sites and hives. We see how our sites and hives react to different seasons good and bad and I think have a good handle on what we need to do for each specific site when the different pollen's and nectar come in, or don't, and what to do. When we use a product in the hives I am fairly certain we can get a feeling that there is or is not a change to how the hives react. This is due to past history and knowledge of the sites. All my hives are in pine forests and are slow to come away in the spring, but when the rewarewa starts if I don't get a move on, they swarm or plugout before kiwi pollination, i don't target the honey I use it to build up hives.

But there is a month or two before the rewa starts and in the past (I've had these sites for 20+ years), they were always hard work to get up. But since I started to use pollen patties and other nutritional products in the early part of the season, they are much easier to build up. Now i can't produce an exact measurement, as over all the sites it changes a little, but as a whole it seems easier to bring hives up.

I'm not going to call it a scientific experiment, but it has given me just as much confidence as if it was.

Someone else sites would react totally different and that beek would say I'm wasting money. 

 

 

Well written. Horses for courses.

If I feed my hives now they end up brooding up. Which I don't really want, yet. If I did want I'd feed a bit.

Dennis, queens are much better now than 10 years ago. Another significant factor

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Agrisea was being used by myself and other beekeepers long before it was promoted as a bee feed.

I was using the animal feed purchased off trademe in 20 litre containers for a couple of years, then out of the blue I got a phone call from someone at agrisea telling me they were starting to get quite a bit of interest from beekeepers in their stockfeed and wanted to know why I was using it and did I think it made any difference to the bees,I think it was the next spring that they started advertising the "bee Feed" as specially formulated for bees.

 

 

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9 hours ago, olbe said:

Agrisea was being used by myself and other beekeepers long before it was promoted as a bee feed.

I was using the animal feed purchased off trademe in 20 litre containers for a couple of years, then out of the blue I got a phone call from someone at agrisea telling me they were starting to get quite a bit of interest from beekeepers in their stockfeed and wanted to know why I was using it and did I think it made any difference to the bees,I think it was the next spring that they started advertising the "bee Feed" as specially formulated for bees.

 

 

The Bee version is made differently to the Animal and Foliar feed products. I don’t know what the differences are but they are there.

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Like most I got sucked into the "specially formulated for bees " blerb, but am going back to the animal feed at the same feeding rate as bee feed, as for what way do I think its better ? Dennis its more of a gut feel than anything positive, just feel the bees brooded up better on the old product .

One other thing I have noticed over the last few springs is quite a lot of hives having sugar that has crystalised in the frame and I have been wondering if this was caused by something in the agrisea seeding the sugar syrup .

 

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8 hours ago, olbe said:

 

One other thing I have noticed over the last few springs is quite a lot of hives having sugar that has crystalised in the frame and I have been wondering if this was caused by something in the agrisea seeding the sugar syrup .

 

Are you feeding invert sugar? It can be prone to crystallization 

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