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1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

When your 2 brood boxes get combined after pollination, so you have 4 three quarters and two queens, do two of these 4 become honey boxes? 

It's not unusual for the 2nds to become the honey supers. Just the sugar syrup and treatment residue could linger 

No its more of combining brood and bees, than this hive goes on top of this hive.

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This morning was a multi tasking day.. a prep day for Monday.. I shifted some new double Nuc boxes to a site ready for Monday’s job of transferring .. time to cut the cold core flute Nuc box from my o

I think if the AFB was found and reported by a beekeeper then they are far from a useless beekeeper and jn fact are very good beekeepers first for finding it and second for reporting it.   I

Hives are absolutely pumping, still 4 weeks left before my bayvarols due out, just wondering if I'm gonna need to super a few weeks early. Doubles are almost ready for splitting and queen rearing

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4 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

No I have all the brood in the bottom box, treatments are for brood boxes. When chatting to a vet about using the two chemicals in each hive, You would/should use a full dose of each treatment. as I place all my brood in 1 box(the bottom) 4 Bayvarol or 2 Apivar is a full dose. I don't need other strips for the top box as it is not a brood box at the time of placing strips in. But I add another full dose of the other chemical in the top box. But as we know bees move around and a double 3/4 set up is only a 1 &1/2 FD, so I have no problem with the space and dose. The chemicals are alternative to each other.

Golly.... that is quite an expensive treatment.... right?

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42 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Golly.... that is quite an expensive treatment.... right?

Not to my way of thinking. Before I used two different chemicals I used one or the other but treated both boxes anyway, I don't do a third treatment unless I feel the need and that would only be ox dribble. I lost 50 hives last autumn when I tried ox staples, so for me it's a bit of piece of mind knowing that my hives stay looked after. I look at it as another worker helping me look after my hives, just as I do when I get casual staff for honey harvesting etc, I want to know they will work when I'm not there.

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Okay .... so you've doubled the cost of your spring treatment ..... how about after the flow.

Interesting that you lost quite a lot of hives with the staples ....

 

But yes , I hear you.  I love opening hives in the spring and finding them alive ..... it saves sooooo much work !

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16 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

I don't do a third treatment unless I feel the need and that would only be ox dribble. I lost 50 hives last autumn when I tried ox staples, 

That's interesting. Haphazard a guess why? Due to mites or bee numbers dwindling.

I think the money put in has a close relationship to money out...

So, if your bees are expecting a $1000 beehive return versus $400 then putting extra protection in is insurance. It may seem trifle excessive, but what's another 10k in treatment...

I am the other end, where I need to be a bit leaner and meaner. And riskier. 

Didn't see James feeding his stock agent noodles or rice, cheese and cracker splash out.

 

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Yeah Gino, bit of a splash out.

We seem to live such hurried lives, sometimes it's nice to do something a little different.

 

Stock agents become friends who guide us through the ups and downs of rural life. Now that we don't do the pub anymore, there are limited opportunities to get the lowdown of what's happening in the industry.

 

Imagine if the Honey Industry had Honey Agents who came around every few months with inside industry intel ....

Perhaps in the old days that was the bee Inspector .

 

I wonder what's happening with the mini conference Taupo ?

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16 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Imagine if the Honey Industry had Honey Agents who came around every few months with inside industry intel ....

Perhaps in the old days that was the bee Inspector .

"Back in the day" they were a lot more than just inspectors.  They provided an important extension service for a government that ("back in the day") would overtly support industries to be successful...

 

In later years, parts of the industry castigated them, saying they were only interested in seeing what beekeepers were doing so that they could sell that information overseas.

 

And then, for most purposes, they were gone...  Ironically, I have heard NZBeekeeping Inc call for them to be re-instated so that *they* could run/manage the PMP, rather than the beekeeping industry itself.

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Oh, and the mini-conference in Taupo has been cancelled:

 

Hello Everyone,

The NZ Beekeeping Mini Conference Committee have advised that as a result of the threat of COVID-19 the Organising Committee has decided to cancel this event.

As the Conference numbers exceeded the 100 people gathering threshold, they had to consider how the friendly conference atmosphere would disappear.  Due to the need for social distance the decision was inevitable, but the Committee believe the right one to make.  They are committed to refunding everyone their money paid and will be in touch to outline the refund process from here.

The Organising committee’s biggest fear was holding a conference that resulted in a COVID cluster being formed, then pollination being affected due to beekeepers not being able to meet their obligations.

The Waikato team are disappointed that they have had to cancel the conference, but look forward to organising a future event.

In conjunction with the Mini Conference the Annual General Meeting was to be held on Sunday 23rd August.
The Executive will now discuss how and when the Annual General Meeting will be held and you will receive further notification.

We thank everyone for your valued support to NZ Beekeeping.
Kind regards
Jane Lorimer
PRESIDENT

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18 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

That's interesting. Haphazard a guess why? Due to mites or bee numbers dwindling.

I think the money put in has a close relationship to money out...

So, if your bees are expecting a $1000 beehive return versus $400 then putting extra protection in is insurance. It may seem trifle excessive, but what's another 10k in treatment...

I am the other end, where I need to be a bit leaner and meaner. And riskier. 

Didn't see James feeding his stock agent noodles or rice, cheese and cracker splash out.

 

When you put treatment in, do you put treatment in for where the brood/bees are at that time, which is generally 1 apisatn, or apivar or 2 bayvarol per 5 frames of bees in the brood box, or do you take into account any brood/bees increase over the treatment time frame?I take into consideration the increase in brood/bees over the treatment time in spring during kiwi pollination and also invasion possibilities from neighbors hives at that time due to the high number of hives in close proximity. In Autumn I want to make sure for the same reason. My treatment cost is no different to some one who treats a double brood box, it costs me approx 10-12k per year, cheaper than a high class hooker, I'm told.

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19 hours ago, jamesc said:

Okay .... so you've doubled the cost of your spring treatment ..... how about after the flow.

Interesting that you lost quite a lot of hives with the staples ....

 

But yes , I hear you.  I love opening hives in the spring and finding them alive ..... it saves sooooo much work !

Yes very annoying, this year just going around the hives for the fist time, Ive lost 3 to queenless drone layers. Got the last half to check over the next couple of days but I'm not expecting anything major there as well. I only run 500 hives, and over the last 5yrs a few hives a yr through drone layers/queenlessness is what I expect, so to lose 50ish last yr was a hell of a shock, so going back to what I find works for me.

 

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3 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Yes very annoying, this year just going around the hives for the fist time, Ive lost 3 to queenless drone layers. Got the last half to check over the next couple of days but I'm not expecting anything major there as well. I only run 500 hives, and over the last 5yrs a few hives a yr through drone layers/queenlessness is what I expect, so to lose 50ish last yr was a hell of a shock, so going back to what I find works for me.

 

Exceractly.... this year we went back to the synthetic status quo and are mighty pleased..

Even the ‘community’ hives we have in peoples gardens to pollinate thier fruit trees are looking good.... and they tend to suffer from neglect as they are sunday specials.

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On 13/08/2020 at 8:16 PM, Dennis Crowley said:

I have a pin- has anyone seen my grenade.

I need to put some context around why I chose to treat the way I do.

Single FD box brood, double FD brood box, single FD brood box with excluder and a second box, single FD brood box with an excluder and a 3/4 second box, repeat all those options again with 3/4 box's and you have different results, then bring in long hives, top bar hives etc and you see there is no 1 hive in use. The one thing they all have is a laying queen that lays x amount of eggs(brood) and that is what we should be thinking about when deciding on what/how to treat.

 My spring treatment is used during Kiwifruit Pollination, I get paid per hive that meets a set standard, I don't get anymore $$ if my hives are stronger than the standard, so I don't send in bigger than needed hives into pollination. Why put two really big hives into pollination for $400 when I can make them into 3 hives for the price of a $7 queen cell and get $600.

I use double box 3/4 boxes, I place all the brood needed into the bottom box, for 3/4 that is 9 frames at 60% brood, FD it is 7 frames, the brood in both cases is 4 FD equivalent at 100%. The second box is needed to carry the extra bees needed to make the grade, 15-16 frames total for 3/4 and 12-13 total for FD. So no more than ten frames of brood total for each hive, Before those hives go into orchards I place all the brood into the bottom box, all that hive needs is 4 Bayvarol or 2 Apivar or 2 Apistan in the bottom box to meet the requirement for treatment. I choose to treat the other top box which only contains bees and pollen and honey and spare cells with another treatment to give protection as I know the queen will lay more eggs. For 9-10 frames of brood these hives are getting twice the required amount of treatment, and like other agricultural practices I use another chemical. As the treatment for varroa is based on frames of bees on the brood nest not the whole hive. For the honey crop hives are combined with out any treatment in them as I pull it out after pollination. When I treat in Autumn, I split my hives and make them smaller, once again all the brood in the bottom box and fill the top box up with Autumn feed etc, so I still don't have more than 10 frames of brood in them at that time either. The treatments stay in for the allotted time give or take a week, and new treatment is used each time. My hives are in the BOP which is full of hives and many come into the area during pollination, I haven't worried about varroa for the last 5 yrs I have been trying this.

I am not a scientist, I am not telling anyone else to try this, but I am not seeing any issues with this plan at this stage, and Mark Goodwin has mentioned this in the past as a way to go, but without any money for research he hasn't done a study, but you can go on past trials of other compounds as a starting base I guess.

My worry with some mentions on here about trying ox in the mix as well, I would caution you. We know how the varroa strips work and the amount to use and for how long and how effective they are and their mode of action. We don't know any of that with ox, I am also caution people that just use treatments back to back regardless of what they are with out understanding whats happening.

My understanding and chatting to Mark, the two treatments I use will have an effect on the mites while in the hive, against the mites building up resistance to either chemical, when the hives has no treatment in it there is a bigger buildup of mites that have no resistance to any chemical, and when you treat again you take out all the mites.

Pours a glass of whiskey and sits back and waits.

 

When your pulling a treatment out and you see PMS what do you do?

Iv had it multiple times, usually every season in certain areas so I alternate and now also give a blast of ox and still lose hives if they're too far gone!

My worst was 16 losses out of 24 that had bayvarol put in when I pulled my manuka crop in January, i go to pull my bush honey in late march and also remove the bayvarol, 2 months later hives were collapsing and robbing hardout, Apivar in, come back and only 3 made it from 24!!! That was my worst site of the season but you can see where I'm coming from. 

I put it down to guys with a few hives that dont treat and cause re invasion effecting near by beekeepers in a big way, hopefully  the new treatment that goes on the entrances does the trick end of next season come robbing time.

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1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

When your pulling a treatment out and you see PMS what do you do?

Iv had it multiple times, usually every season in certain areas so I alternate and now also give a blast of ox and still lose hives if they're too far gone!

My worst was 16 losses out of 24 that had bayvarol put in when I pulled my manuka crop in January, i go to pull my bush honey in late march and also remove the bayvarol, 2 months later hives were collapsing and robbing hardout, Apivar in, come back and only 3 made it from 24!!! That was my worst site of the season but you can see where I'm coming from. 

I put it down to guys with a few hives that dont treat and cause re invasion effecting near by beekeepers in a big way, hopefully  the new treatment that goes on the entrances does the trick end of next season come robbing time.

PMS is not a conclusive indication of high mite load. Especially DWV

Treating a hive with PMS hardly ever reverses outcome. Need to add healthy brood and bees plus treatment.

Those rogue bee neighbours are a menace. It only takes a few bombs, and they never responsible.

I wonder if we could have legislation like AFB to hold operators accountable.

 

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I think that when we are mystified, the fall back position can be to blame others, and thereby dismiss the problem, and working on a solution, from our minds.

 

Over the years I have had failures with both apivar and bayvarol, pulling strips from mid brood at end of treatment period and PMS all over the comb, right next to the strip.

 

Finally think I have it figured. I don't leave the box of strips stored where the sun can shine on it any more, and when I'm out putting strips in, if it's hot, I'll take the bucket of strips and put it in the shade under the truck.

 

 

Edited by Alastair
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14 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

PMS is not a conclusive indication of high mite load. Especially DWV

Treating a hive with PMS hardly ever reverses outcome. Need to add healthy brood and bees plus treatment.

Those rogue bee neighbours are a menace. It only takes a few bombs, and they never responsible.

I wonder if we could have legislation like AFB to hold operators accountable.

 

Most the time when I see DWV I see mites running around, I usually swap weaker hives with really strong hives to get populations up a bit and add a frame or 2 and it works a treat😊 but legislation doesn't work on unregistered hobbyists who give up once their hives die, there needs to be large fines for those who get hives and those who sell hives withought filling out ownership papers.

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8 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I think that when we are mystified, the fall back position can be to blame others, and thereby dismiss the problem, and working on a solution, from our minds.

 

Over the years I have had a few failures with both apivar and bayvarol, pulling strips from mid brood at end of treatment period and PMS all over the comb, right next to the strip.

 

Finally think I have it figured. I don't leave the box of strips stored where the sun can shine on it any more, and when I'm out putting strips in, if it's hot, I'll take the bucket of strips and put it in the shade under the truck.

 

 

I've always done that also I store the left over strips in a cool dark place, and I put enough for each pallet in my pocket as I go that way I cant miss any hives.

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Don't ever leave your strip sitting in the sun especially once they are out of the packet.

Reinvasion is usually blamed on bad neighbours and it can be but I think more often comes from swarms. I have certainly seen a correlation between bad swarming seasons and varoa problems the following winter.

It was a few years ago that I talked to Mark Goodwin about using more than one treatment at a time and from memory he thought it would would be a good idea to use combined strips. I assume that the cost for the chemicals used in the strips is minimal and that a dual action strip wouldn't cost much more than a single action strip if we could get someone to manufacture them.

I do however agree with Dave Black on the possible harmful effects to the bees not to mention more residues.

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Happy Boys @Stoney....

Those dogs look cuzins to Retired Bee Dog Georgie.

yep, prepping for the onslaught.... bought teo new stainless hive tools the other day. I generally don’t like themand prefer the Mann Lake.

But stainless was on special.... i took to them with the angle grinder... ground off the hard corners of the blade and handle sides, bluntened theblade as I don’t need a chisel... and now have domething I’m quite keen to try out.

9A8B2879-48EC-4B2E-9100-FE1F40D1EC47.jpeg

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6 hours ago, jamesc said:

Happy Boys @Stoney....

Those dogs look cuzins to Retired Bee Dog Georgie.

yep, prepping for the onslaught.... bought teo new stainless hive tools the other day. I generally don’t like themand prefer the Mann Lake.

But stainless was on special.... i took to them with the angle grinder... ground off the hard corners of the blade and handle sides, bluntened theblade as I don’t need a chisel... and now have domething I’m quite keen to try out.

9A8B2879-48EC-4B2E-9100-FE1F40D1EC47.jpeg

Any pictures of your new tool?

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On 16/08/2020 at 7:46 AM, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Those rogue bee neighbours are a menace. It only takes a few bombs, and they never responsible.

I wonder if we could have legislation like AFB to hold operators accountable.

 

I support Gino’s sugestión lets have a National Varroasis and AFB Pest Management Plan! 

At the end of the day to manage AFB you first need to manage varroa!

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On 16/08/2020 at 8:57 PM, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Yes please.  So we know what one you are talking about.

 

Probably just a standard Kelly hive tool. Not that common amongst commercial due to britleness and sharp edges as Stoner mentioned.

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