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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

If you look hard enough you would probably find AFB spores on the floor of many bee sheds. Not to mention truck decks

Very generalist comment? Please provide evidence or historic documentation of this? What is the baseline study for this comment?  

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I don't know which particular case the Waikato branch is referring to.   But it sounds very much like a case that has already been publicly commented on in the Beekeeper magazine, so I can c

Just going to jump in here and say if you have AFB, do report it.   This enables the management agency to see if there is a problem in an area that should be investigated by an AP2.  

The only case of AFB I ever had in my own hives was found when it was the first hive I went to in the spring.  Even worse (?) it was in the burr comb between the boxes - I had cracked the top box and

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37 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

Very generalist comment? Please provide evidence or historic documentation of this? What is the baseline study for this comment?  

Seems like a very possible scenario seeing how widespread the bug is in NZ and how long it's been here. We all know it takes more than one or two spores to produce a full blown infection, so you'd never know without testing would you.

Edited by yesbut
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1 hour ago, Maggie James said:

Very generalist comment? Please provide evidence or historic documentation of this? What is the baseline study for this comment?  

 

Can you please stop. It's very clear what you're trying to do and you're not funny. If you need to, learn how to use the ignore feature.

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3 hours ago, Alastair said:

In the case mentioned a few posts back, the reason for the burning was it was felt that the beekeeper involved had already shown he could not be relied on to deal with more AFB if it arose due to him using the infected boxes. Each case is judged on it's merits, and it may well be that had a different beekeeper been able to forward a plan how he would deal with any resultant AFB, he may have been allowed to keep the boxes.

i'll bet you will be back burning more next year and the next.

burning the boxes was an excellent move but i think its delaying the enviable. 

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I struggle to believe that some beekeepers may believe that management agency would be a thread to average Joe beekeeper. From what I have seen they are dealing with the worst offenders.....

If someone is found with 30% afb in the Autumn after he extracted honey and with no traceability in place. How can you identify the 70% stickies that came from healthy hives now that they are on storage in the shed mixed up with contaminated boxes?

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

It’s a good thing all those contaminated stickies weren’t left outside for all the bees in the neighbourhood to rob.

 

 

The question is: is it acceptable (or even  legal under the afb pmp) to allow this beekeeper to use any of these supers on healthy hives next season?

This is likely one of the reasons why he got to 30% afb already....

Reading the afb order in council it appears that burning  contaminated and potentially contaminated appliances is actually a requirement under section 28 (1), 29 (1) and 31(1)

 

Of course if I am the affected beekeeper I won't want to believe that all my boxes are suspected of being contaminated..... , but the prevalence of afb in my operation would speak louder!

 

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Someone like Dr Mark Goodwin could give a much better picture of how prevalent subclinical AFB was in the past but I do know there were large areas where it was exceedingly prevalent and that was using the old testing methods.

The new test is incredibly sensitive. Given that this new tests can detect the merest sniff of a wiff I think we can expect positive results from hives within cooee  of your own or someone else's infection.

There is ongoing research to quantify just what  different spore levels mean in terms of infection potential. 

This is amazing science and has huge potential to help with the AFB fight. 

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10 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

It’s a good thing all those contaminated stickies weren’t left outside for all the bees in the neighbourhood to rob.

 

If those contaminated stickies pose a risk to the neighbourhood bees that clean them up, they must surely pose more risk to the beekeeper's own hives if he put them on next season.  Rather than neighbouring hives sharing in the spore load from the 30% of boxes that were infected, the beekeepers own hives would be getting the 'undiluted' spore numbers.

 

Inspections - regular, thorough and effective - combined with some form of marking and/or quarantine to be able to trace problems such as in this case.  If you haven't managed to incorporate those two into your operation, by the time you get 30% AFB it is getting a bit late to start.

 

Having said that, it can still be done - but if I was the Mgmt Agency, I'd want to be sure I had confidence that the beekeeper was serious about dealing with it.  I remember a story of an outfit with about 40% AFB.  Kept splitting to retain the 800 hives, and had 30% after the first year, 10% next year, 2% following.  The 800 hives were then sold when the AFB fell to 0.1%.

 

Inspect and quarantine...

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On 6/16/2020 at 11:20 AM, Dennis Crowley said:

This didn't happen in isolation, it was after a major issue was discovered. But this sort of scaremongering is the wrong message being sent out there.I was talking to a waikato beek last spring, he had a few afb's showing up, asked me what to do as he heard from to be careful as the AFBPMP would come and burn his outfit.

After I read him the riot act and made him aware of his responsibilities, he was all good.

He only had 6-7 hives out of 800 that were infected and they were all in one yard, so likely a local issue close by, but the information he getting about businesses getting burnt is so wrong and needs to stop.

No what I'm saying is that the beeks are responsible, and if they don't take responsibility for their hives and end up with a infection running rampant, they will/should be dealt with.

AFB spore testing in extracted honey should be mandatory so as to know who needs inspecting for the better of the industry.

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16 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

AFB spore testing in extracted honey should be mandatory so as to know who needs inspecting for the better of the industry.

Who pays ?

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19 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Who pays ?

We do obviously, site rego has gone through the roof surely its money well spent for the elimination of AFB

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1 minute ago, jamesc said:

I tell yah Bro..... we in the Bee industry have  a lot to learn if we want to move forward and build a vibrant industry that will help pay back some of Jacinda's massive borrowings.

 

And my pension !

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Oh Crikey .... I forgot about your pension .......  maybe she'll up the age and you'll have to jump back on the tools .... or train an apprentice..... eh

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

With all due respect, like with Covid ,  if the Agency wants to gain a bit of Mana , it needs to drop the privacy concerns and start informing beekeepers about who is registering a problem within their area so we can plan accordingly where to put hives.

 

When the AFB PMS - now the AFB PMP - was 'built' by the industry in the late 1990s, Government was far from happy about providing even the powers that had been used by the Dept Ag/MAF of the time to 'the industry'.  Such things as access to inspect hives brought up all sorts of personal freedom issues, and the consideration of destruction of private goods - not a power they wanted to give to our industry.  So I don't doubt that the Mgmt Agency is severely constrained by such as Privacy Act and all sorts of other restrictions in what it is able to say about specific AFB outbreaks.  I hope this isn't seen as an apology for seeming inactions - simply a statement that rarely would the Mgmt Agency be able to act in the way a 'reasonable' beekeeper might expect...

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Oh Crikey .... I forgot about your pension .......  maybe she'll up the age and you'll have to jump back on the tools .... or train an apprentice..... eh

I wouldn't mind a keen apprentice, 10 more years until my boys are old enough and if I get hurt there's nobody to take my place and I'll have to fight to get a crappy acc.

Seems none of the young guys around now days actually want to learn or work hard like when I was young.

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I had an idea for info Sharing afb cases a couple yrs ago while in a management role and attempting to create solutions to ongoing AFB issues in a particular area... and I put it to Marco. 

 it involved beekeepers that neighbour or share an area with each other all agreeing to let each other see their individual apiweb  info.. 

I thought this was a great idea and promptly jumped on the phone and ran it past 2 neighbouring large commercials.. surprisingly they both liked it and wanted to know more about how it could work.. 

 

Why not take this further me thinks... and add varroa treatment- and timings so everyone’s aware what everyone’s up to.. 

following several excited calls back and forwards it turned out the technology with apiweb was unable to do this for us. 

Of course we could have used our own system and simply added our sites onto some mapping software to share info etc. 

A change in my role with that company never saw the idea realised. 

 

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4 hours ago, yesbut said:

Who pays ?

from memory, that's one of the promised uses of the increase in levy. Sounds good to me

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2 hours ago, jamesc said:

Last year I was very polite about the beekeeper concerned, but his legacy has cost us a lot of money.

 

wasn't that long ago that @Dennis Crowley got upset that I was complaining about some mate of his with multiple dead-out afb hives across multiple apiaries - apparently we should have all been sympathetic to his mate's circumstances. API-NZ in a nutshell

can't remember if it was the same guy? can search posts to find his name if that's useful

Edited by tommy dave
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