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Going back to O/A is a bit like letting strangers in to my bubble.  Inevitable. I just hope I get it right next time !

9 hours ago, kaihoka said:

OA is not set and forget option and any issues I have had with strips have been my mismanagement and lack of attention at a critical time .

I am going to have a through look through my hives tomorrow .

I have just learnt that the beek who has had hives on my place had to burn 150 hives because of AFB.

I am hoping this happened in the motueka area after he moved his lot to mine .

It is a tragedy for him, it was his breeders .

3 ,yrs ago his breeders were wiped out by floods .

The Riwaka area  is a real hot spot for AFB now .

Sweet Mother of Dog ......🤒   where the heck did all that come from ....?

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I don't know which particular case the Waikato branch is referring to.   But it sounds very much like a case that has already been publicly commented on in the Beekeeper magazine, so I can c

Just going to jump in here and say if you have AFB, do report it.   This enables the management agency to see if there is a problem in an area that should be investigated by an AP2.  

The only case of AFB I ever had in my own hives was found when it was the first hive I went to in the spring.  Even worse (?) it was in the burr comb between the boxes - I had cracked the top box and

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21 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Going back to O/A is a bit like letting strangers in to my bubble.  Inevitable. I just hope I get it right next time !

Sweet Mother of Dog ......🤒   where the heck did all that come from ....?

Riwaka developed a big AFB problem a few yrs ago .

My beek lives there and has had his opperation there for over 40 yrs.

I have been told one of his new guys was too casual and missed it and spread it everywhere .

 

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17 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

Riwaka developed a big AFB problem a few yrs ago .

My beek lives there and has had his opperation there for over 40 yrs.

I have been told one of his new guys was too casual and missed it and spread it everywhere .

 

I know the feeling ..... there's a one liner there somewhere ....

 

The world's gone to the dogs..

Doggone

Hot dog ...

Dog days ....

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Sweet Mother of Dog ......🤒   where the heck did all that come from ....?

lol, that took me a while to work out you weren't being funny about the amount of content he'd put in the post.

A selective quote may have been a better option, I"ll put together a guide.

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  On 5/14/2020 at 9:24 PM, kaihoka said:

OA is not set and forget option and any issues I have had with strips have been my mismanagement and lack of attention at a critical time .

I am going to have a through look through my hives tomorrow .

I have just learnt that the beek who has had hives on my place had to burn 150 hives because of AFB.

I am hoping this happened in the motueka area after he moved his lot to mine .

It is a tragedy for him, it was his breeders .

3 ,yrs ago his breeders were wiped out by floods .

The Riwaka area  is a real hot spot for AFB now .

 

 

  Kaihoka are you sure about this? The AFB maps below does not show Riwaka as an AFB hotspot......

Perhaps the affected beekeeper forgot to report the AFB found to the AFB Management Agency....

image.png.36ffed55cbe69c0d8d8f3f93ee95e5aa.png

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On 6/8/2020 at 8:24 PM, Bee Real said:

OA is not set and forget option and any issues I have had with strips have been my mismanagement and lack of attention at a critical time .

I am going to have a through look through my hives tomorrow .

I have just learnt that the beek who has had hives on my place had to burn 150 hives because of AFB.

I am hoping this happened in the motueka area after he moved his lot to mine .

It is a tragedy for him, it was his breeders .

3 ,yrs ago his breeders were wiped out by floods .

The Riwaka area  is a real hot spot for AFB now .

 

 

  Kaihoka are you sure about this? The AFB maps below does not show Riwaka as an AFB hotspot......

Perhaps the affected beekeeper forgot to report the AFB found to the AFB Management Agency....

image.png.36ffed55cbe69c0d8d8f3f93ee95e5aa.png

I have heard of AFB problems in Riwaka for at least 2, yrs now .

 Not sure what the  exact criteria for colour on the map .

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different beekeepers react differently to AFB.

I would regard a 1% infection in my hives as an absolute disaster and a major problem.

I have known beekeepers who regarded a 5% infection rate as normal or even an improvement.

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53 minutes ago, john berry said:

different beekeepers react differently to AFB.

I would regard a 1% infection in my hives as an absolute disaster and a major problem.

I have known beekeepers who regarded a 5% infection rate as normal or even an improvement.

I been happy so far 0 AFBs after last seasons 2 and 1 the season before all at the same site, all you can do is hope the neighbors doing his job! Same thing I had quite a while back at another area maybe 2014, took 2 seasons and it was gone.

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On 6/9/2020 at 10:08 PM, kaihoka said:

I have heard of AFB problems in Riwaka for at least 2, yrs now .

 Not sure what the  exact criteria for colour on the map .

If multiple cases of Afb were reported in Riwaka the heat map (red or yellow) was going to cover that area. I suspect a lot of AFB goes unreported by some DECA holders in clear breach of their DECA.....

 

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10 hours ago, Bee Real said:

If multiple cases of Afb were reported in Riwaka the heat map (red or yellow) was going to cover that area. I suspect a lot of AFB goes unreported by some DECA holders in clear breach of their DECA.....

 

We have all heard stories of new beekeepers with thousands of hives and miraculously they are so wonderful at beekeeping they have never had a case of AFB.

Plans are in place for a lot more testing of honey samples. There is a very clear correlation between spore levels in honey and levels of clinical and subclinical AFB in hives. If your hives are truly clean then your honey will be to .

Very soon the management agency will have verification of just how accurate beekeepers ADR reports really are.

Most will be very good and a few will get the inspections they richly deserve hopefully leading to a very close look at cost recovery and deka removal.

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On 6/13/2020 at 9:37 AM, john berry said:

Plans are in place for a lot more testing of honey samples. There is a very clear correlation between spore levels in honey and levels of clinical and subclinical AFB in hives. If your hives are truly clean then your honey will be to .

 

This from a set of NZ Beekeeping Inc minutes (Waikato Branch):

 

"AFB down the south Island has had a different kind of attitude coming to the fore where they have been looking at AFB spores and not looking at Clinical Symptoms. People are being put under stress. You would have to be very careful if someone just walks into your shed and scraps a sample of the floor and tests it, coming back with AFB spores and then burning all your boxes. This type of thing is not under the AFB PMP but under the Bio Security Act. They seem to be switching things around to suit their agenda to target beekeepers."

 

Can anyone confirm that the AFB Management Agency is now looking at AFB spores instead of clinical symptoms, or has burned all of a beekeeper's boxes after someone walked into their shed and scraped a sample of the floor to test? 

 

Later, the minutes say "Anything more that 10% incidence you are likely to be targeted."  If that is true, it does not surprise me at all...

 

Note that I am not advocating burning hives on the basis of the scrapings from a honey house floor. I do think we are not so far off of effectively using other techniques: dogs, PCR and plating - to identify sub-clinical infections before visual symptoms are available...

 

 

 

 

Edited by NickWallingford
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No. The AFBPMP does not just find a few spores on the floor then burn every box in the shed.

 

This sort of claptrap is why I can not in good conscience financially support NZ Beekeeping inc. 

 

Very sorry. Because I very much respect some members, and some of the things that NZ beekeeping inc have done, and are doing. But the bizzare attitude to the long needed anti AFB measures that are being undertaken is a great shame.

 

Can't complain that "nothing is being done about AFB", then complain when something is.

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

No. The AFBPMP does not just find a few spores on the floor then burn every box in the shed.

 

This sort of claptrap is why I can not in good conscience financially support NZ Beekeeping inc. 

 

Very sorry. Because I very much respect some members, and some of the things that NZ beekeeping inc have done, and are doing. But the bizzare attitude to the long needed anti AFB measures that are being undertaken is a great shame.

 

Can't complain that "nothing is being done about AFB", then complain when something is.

 

Well said @Alastair. That is also why I cannot support NZ Beekeeping Inc.  Unfortunately, anything that AFBPMP do is seen as ApiNZ and therefore get's the big stick treatment.  Also too many old buddy buddy actions.

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The compulsory destruction of beekeeping equipment because it is contaminated with AFB spores raises a lot of questions and fears.

I have to emphasise that I know nothing directly about these cases but I think it's fair to surmise that some beekeepers with a very real AFB problem were forced to destroy clinically infected hives and spore infected gear. At least some of these beekeepers were not at all happy about this and went to New Zealand beekeeping Inc for support.

Burning of gear with a high degree of AFB contamination is very sound practice and one that I have seen use many times when purchasing rundown beekeeping outfits but to do it on a compulsory basis is something I struggle with.

I guess if someone had 100% infection rate on an autumn inspection then it would make very good sense to destroy everything.

If they had a 5% infection rate then total destruction might be of benefit to their neighbours but the beekeeper might not be too happy.

Perhaps it is time for the board to clearly define what their policies and parameters are on this issue. This would remove a lot of the uncertainties.

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11 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I don't know which particular case the Waikato branch is referring to.

 

But it sounds very much like a case that has already been publicly commented on in the Beekeeper magazine, so I can comment.

 

In that case, it was a several hundred hive outfit with out of control AFB that was brought to the attention of the AFBPMP after several neighbouring beekeepers started getting AFB all around him. Upon inspection by some AP2's they found that one hive in every three had AFB. Several hundred hives. The infected hives were burned by the AP2's. The beekeeper could understand the need for that.

 

But then, it was realised that honey boxes had been taken off the hives, extracted, and then stored in a shed. The beekeeper did not know which boxes came off which hives. Unfortunately, around a third of the boxes in the shed were likely to be infected with AFB. Putting them back on hives next season would have unleashed another wave of AFB. Because the beekeeper had clearly not been doing his job of monitoring and destroying AFB infected hives and had let the disease run rampant, the decision what to do with the boxes was taken out of his hands and all the boxes were burned.

 

Because this represented a huge financial loss to the beekeeper he convinced other beekeepers he was a vistim of huge injustice and attempted to rally support against the AFBPMP.

 

But to consider the situation logically, what would have been the outcome if the boxes had not been burned. Almost certainly it would have eventually cost that beekeeper more, not to mention his neighbours.

 

Re the reference to floor scrapings, it is true that floor scrapings were taken from the shed and found to have AFB spores. But it was not just that that caused the boxes to be burned, it was the whole situation I have described.

 

To put a personal perspective on it, what would you or I do if we had a shed full of boxes and 1 in 3 of them had AFB. Me anyway, I would not be putting them on my hives. Hard as it would be, I'd burn them. Loose money to save money.

 

 

 

 

The other problem with this situation was that there was no record keeping of where boxes came from or went.

IN YOUR DECA YOU, THE BEEKEEPER ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR AFB CONTAINMENT /ERADICATION ETC NOT THE AFBPMP.

There are beeks who find AFB and want to keep supers/floors etc to wax dip, they have quarantine processes in place to keep those boxes etc separate until they are fixed or burnt. 

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10 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

IN YOUR DECA YOU, THE BEEKEEPER ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR AFB CONTAINMENT /ERADICATION ETC NOT THE AFBPMP.

So what are you saying here, that the world shrugs it's shoulders and walks away when this  "YOU" doesn't perform ?

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2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

So what are you saying here, that the world shrugs it's shoulders and walks away when this  "YOU" doesn't perform ?

 

I keep forgetting...

 

Are we wanting to curb the draconian powers being wielded by the evil empire Mgmt Agency?  Or are we wanting to give them even more powers so that we can complain about that, too?

 

Personally?  I have no problem with a beekeeper who is willingly non-compliant being assisted from the industry by way of orderly reductions in hive numbers. 

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5 minutes ago, john berry said:

There is a fear that competent beekeepers with a level of subclinical infection caused by someone else will end up having all the boxes burnt. Personally I think this fear is unfounded but like I said I would like a very clear statement from the management agency to this effect.

 

Good point John and I think it is that fear that is driving some of the anti.

 

I can't speak for the AFBPMP, but was at a meeting where this was discussed and it was clear from the answers given that the AFBPMP have no intention of victimising someone not in breach of their DECA in that way.

 

If you look hard enough you would probably find AFB spores on the floor of many bee sheds. Not to mention truck decks, yet those beeks will rarely have symptomatic AFB. And if they do get it, they eliminate it.

 

In the case mentioned a few posts back, the reason for the burning was it was felt that the beekeeper involved had already shown he could not be relied on to deal with more AFB if it arose due to him using the infected boxes. Each case is judged on it's merits, and it may well be that had a different beekeeper been able to forward a plan how he would deal with any resultant AFB, he may have been allowed to keep the boxes.

 

Even though in my opinion, anyone would be rather silly to use those boxes.

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