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Shaun

Handling heavy boxes

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

Hey @Shaun are you still using the jumbo brood boxes, if so how are the going?

Yep still use Jumbo for brood boxes only, and they work for me. As with everything beekeeping there are pluses and minus. I like that I only have one brood box to go through for health checks and putting strips into. I also run my hives on stands 300mm high so the top of the brood box is 600mm of the ground which makes for considerably less bending when working in the brood. Given I'm not the youngest beekeeper around and have a few ongoing niggles/issues with finger, hand and shoulder strain type of injures working smarter rather than harder is important to me. 

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23 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Yep still use Jumbo for brood boxes only, and they work for me. As with everything beekeeping there are pluses and minus. I like that I only have one brood box to go through for health checks and putting strips into. I also run my hives on stands 300mm high so the top of the brood box is 600mm of the ground which makes for considerably less bending when working in the brood. Given I'm not the youngest beekeeper around and have a few ongoing niggles/issues with finger, hand and shoulder strain type of injures working smarter rather than harder is important to me. 

from another not so young beekeeper.....how does this work with the honey boxes? Its lifting/moving the upper boxes I have most difficulty with.

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2 minutes ago, Mummzie said:

from another not so young beekeeper.....how does this work with the honey boxes? Its lifting/moving the upper boxes I have most difficulty with.

Yes, I also have most injury related problems from honey boxes. I use 3/4 with 8 frames but they are still too heavy. One of the main problems is the cutout for the finger holds, its just too small and lifting close to 30kg on the finger tips gets very painful after a few hundred. I have tendon swelling in several fingers on both hands, I'm considering adding cleats to increase the finger hold depth or getting an easy lifter and lifting mechanically. 

My hands and shoulder usually settle down over the winter and are fine through the spring pollination but by the end of harvest and extraction I'm having drugs and physo to manage the pain and swelling.

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Posted (edited)

I strongly recommend cleats....Mine are 20mm thick, they  make a big difference. Bigger would be even better.  Screwing cleats on to line up with the existing rebate handles would be one answer.

Edited by yesbut
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7 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Yes, I also have most injury related problems from honey boxes. I use 3/4 with 8 frames but they are still too heavy. One of the main problems is the cutout for the finger holds, its just too small and lifting close to 30kg on the finger tips gets very painful after a few hundred. I have tendon swelling in several fingers on both hands, I'm considering adding cleats to increase the finger hold depth or getting an easy lifter and lifting mechanically. 

My hands and shoulder usually settle down over the winter and are fine through the spring pollination but by the end of harvest and extraction I'm having drugs and physo to manage the pain and swelling.

That is also part of the problem when you are 12 ft tall.  For us shorties it is not quite so bad.

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3 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

That is also part of the problem when you are 12 ft tall.  For us shorties it is not quite so bad.

ROTFL 🤣

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Hey Shaun, good to hear from you. Himself has the same finger problems. He’s modified the way he lifts the boxes so he gets a hand under and over sort of. A lifter would be lovely! I could use it...

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Hey Shaun,

 

When using 8 frames/box are they all squashed up to one side? Or what? 

 

Thanks,

 

Tony

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Welcome to the forum Tony M  !

 

you might be lucky to hear from @Shaun  but you never know....he reckons he doesn't follow the forum anymore....

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56 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Hey Shaun,

 

When using 8 frames/box are they all squashed up to one side? Or what? 

 

Thanks,

 

Tony

 

No.  They are evenly spaced.

You draw the frames initially as 10 frame to the box and as the bees start to draw the frames you then remove 1 frame and then later the next frame (least drawn ones). Then you keep the remaining 8 frames evenly spaced.

You can space them by hand or by using frame spacers.  This is all designed to keep the frames nice and straight.

It helps a lot with uncapping in the extraction shed.

You can buy these. in 8, 9 or 10 frame

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 22/04/2020 at 8:34 AM, Shaun said:

I use 3/4 with 8 frames but they are still too heavy.

 

2 hours ago, Tony M said:

Hey Shaun,

 

When using 8 frames/box are they all squashed up to one side? Or what? 

 

Thanks,

 

Tony

odds are hes using manly frames.

they are much wider (~44mm) and only fit 8 to a box. if you use normal frames there is a big risk of breaking lugs off the frames. even with manlys you will break a few.

however a 3/4 8 framer super weighs similar to a FD 10 framer. no change in weight for lifting.

if you want lighter boxes use 10 frames in a 3/4 box.

 

also 8 framers tend to bridge a lot more and require the bees to make more wax. when extracting you tend to remove a lot of wax from the frame.

 

my home hives are 2x 3/4 brood 10 frames and 3/4 10 frame supers. so much easier keeping everything the same.

Edited by tristan
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4 minutes ago, tristan said:

 

odds are hes using manly frames.

they are much wider (~44mm) and only fit 8 to a box. if you use normal frames there is a big risk of breaking lugs off the frames. even with manlys you will break a few.

however a 3/4 8 framer super weighs similar to a FD 10 framer. no change in weight for lifting.

if you want lighter boxes use 10 frames in a 3/4 box.

 

also 8 framers tend to bridge a lot more and require the bees to make more wax. when extracting you tend to remove a lot of wax from the frame.

 

my home hives are 2x 3/4 brood 10 frames and 3/4 10 frame supers. so much easier keeping everything the same.

Tristan is correct.

8 manly style frames, I make mine 42mm thick.

They are nice to use in the extraction process again as Tristan says easy to uncap.

They cannot be used for brood, total mess when ever I get a queen laying above the excluder, (none this season)

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@tristan  by breaking lugs I take it you mean when extracting ?  What happens to the full frame if a lug breaks ? Chucked in a corner ? Beek gets a credit ? 

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Here's what I've done, to evenly space out nine frames, using a batten. Initially I was going to do this every time i worked on the hive, but realised it was easier to mark out the spaces on the edge of the box with a marking pen.

 

 

 

029.jpg

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

@tristan  by breaking lugs I take it you mean when extracting ?  What happens to the full frame if a lug breaks ? Chucked in a corner ? Beek gets a credit ? 

generally they break in the boxes due to someone dropping them or lug sticking up when a box is placed on top.

because of their weight 8 framers are far more prone to breaking. broken frames returned to beek, just a hazard of the job.

you do not get many broken frames, unless it faulty frames (common with wood frames). 

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13 hours ago, tristan said:

generally they break in the boxes due to someone dropping them or lug sticking up when a box is placed on top.

because of their weight 8 framers are far more prone to breaking. broken frames returned to beek, just a hazard of the job.

you do not get many broken frames, unless it faulty frames (common with wood frames). 

I've found a broken lug on a wood FD frame in a hive, (bottom brood box) and repaired it with two #2 screw into the end of the top bar until it could be cycled out.

I've never seen a broken lug on a plastic frame, does that happen too?

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10 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

I've found a broken lug on a wood FD frame in a hive, (bottom brood box) and repaired it with two #2 screw into the end of the top bar until it could be cycled out.

I've never seen a broken lug on a plastic frame, does that happen too?

yes all the time.

tho typically plastic frames break less than wooden ones.

however plastic frames are more sensitive to lug breakage. wood tends to absorb the inpact, hard plastic tends to crack.

quite often if a frame is not put into the box correctly and heavy box is put on top it will crack the lug. then its usually handling etc or 2nd time it happens that breaks it off.

 

cracked plastic lugs are a big problem for extraction as they can break off during extraction and end up damaging machines. 

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7 minutes ago, tristan said:

yes all the time.

tho typically plastic frames break less than wooden ones.

however plastic frames are more sensitive to lug breakage. wood tends to absorb the inpact, hard plastic tends to crack.

quite often if a frame is not put into the box correctly and heavy box is put on top it will crack the lug. then its usually handling etc or 2nd time it happens that breaks it off.

 

cracked plastic lugs are a big problem for extraction as they can break off during extraction and end up damaging machines. 

 

@tristan just wondering with all your extraction experience who provides the best plant - from prickers to extractors and wax centrifuges / clarifiers / sieve's, and what gear to avoid?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

@tristan just wondering with all your extraction experience who provides the best plant - from prickers to extractors and wax centrifuges / clarifiers / sieve's, and what gear to avoid?

And what's the best trailer to pick it all up with ?😁

Edited by yesbut
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1 hour ago, CraBee said:

 

@tristan just wondering with all your extraction experience who provides the best plant - from prickers to extractors and wax centrifuges / clarifiers / sieve's, and what gear to avoid?

 

thats something i cannot give a good answer to.

everyone has different needs, takes different approaches and has different expections.

to decap or not. to prick or not. how much wax sepration is required etc.

also i do not have first hand experience with some of the gear. tho i have heard from some beeks that do. plus there is a lot of imported product which i have not dealt with.

 

also it depends on how much staff do you run. i've seen some companies run a huge amount of staff which means you can run more semi-auto machines.

 

one of the most basic things is that beekeeping comes first. you always want to make the machine fit the beekeeping than to make the beekeeping fit the machine.

eg leave as much wax on the frame as possible. keep the frames in good condition.

 

manafactures vary a fair bit because they don't make everything and even some horrid manafactures make some ok products.

also some manafactures have all the same design flaws as the others. 

 

paradise run a fairly decent system with uncappers with their version of the beequip uncapper. however i havn't played with the new versions.

but they have deboxer, wax press system pretty well sorted.

not sure if beequip is still going.

 

prickers, for semi's i would be inclined to get the imported ones. the reason for that is the needle banks have more needles so requires less pricks to do the job which makes it a lot faster.

auto prickers, Boutelje is still a nitemare. the crystech looks to be a lot better, its based around the imported semi-auto pricker but i've not seen one in action. it appears to have fixed the major flaw the Boutelje one has. it also looks to intergrate with paradise/beequip decappers.

 

extractors, vertical swing basket are better for manuka. Boutelje i've had to fix and modify a fair bit. Crystech comes with better features as standard but both suffer the same design issue with the baskets. the old beetech honey sucker extractor works better than them. the imports i've not looked at yet. i hope to do that soon.

 

wax cleaning. spin floats work the best. but anything with wax cutting tends to have issues with wax cutting. so either get a big enough machine that holds a days wax, or get a machine thats is cleaned out very easly. 

the small Boutelje spin floats seam to work ok but limited through put.

 

final filtering, all depends on what you need.

 

heat exchangers and pumps see hdprocess.

i do not see the point of buying custom built pumps and heat changers when there is heaps of ready made products on the market.

 

but the big trick is getting it all to work together without needing special training to be able to run it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, yesbut said:

@tristan  by breaking lugs I take it you mean when extracting ?  What happens to the full frame if a lug breaks ? Chucked in a corner ? Beek gets a credit ? 

We extracted about 300 drums of honey this season and ended up with about 3 fish bins of broken frames, more than normal but probably because many boxes were chocka full. Frame lugs tend to break when the boss is not looking and full boxes get droped down rarther that placed down when pulling honey out in the field. Some damage is unavoidable and not worth worrying about but some crews are much rougher than others. We do break some frames in the extracting room but not many. One of the guys I extract for told be that we break only 10% of the frames that is old extraction team used to so I guess it varies. Broken frames get the honey and wax scraped off into the wax press.

 

Any broken lugs that we don't spot get chewed up and spat out by our press but can damage or jam the lighter built paradise type presses. Loose nails can be an issue in pumps but usually fall to the bottom of our sump before the pump.

 

Biggest thing with broken or falling apart gear is that it "annoys" the extraction team and you may be told not to come back next year. If anyone asked for a credit for the odd broken frame that we cause they would likely  be told where to go or what to do with the frame, nicely of cause although the lads may be a little more direct😉.

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9 minutes ago, Jamo said:

We extracted about 300 drums of honey this season and ended up with about 3 fish bins of broken frames, more than normal but probably because many boxes were chocka full. Frame lugs tend to break when the boss is not looking and full boxes get droped down rarther that placed down when pulling honey out in the field. Some damage is unavoidable and not worth worrying about but some crews are much rougher than others. We do break some frames in the extracting room but not many. One of the guys I extract for told be that we break only 10% of the frames that is old extraction team used to so I guess it varies. Broken frames get the honey and wax scraped off into the wax press.

 

Any broken lugs that we don't spot get chewed up and spat out by our press but can damage or jam the lighter built paradise type presses. Loose nails can be an issue in pumps but usually fall to the bottom of our sump before the pump.

 

Biggest thing with broken or falling apart gear is that it "annoys" the extraction team and you may be told not to come back next year. If anyone asked for a credit for the odd broken frame that we cause they would likely  be told where to go or what to do with the frame, nicely of cause although the lads may be a little more direct😉.

 

What gear do you like @jamo mainly re pricker and extractor and wax separator?

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Have good frames in the honey supers.  If it looks like it would break at the extraction plant, use it as the outside frame in the bottom brood box over winter and replace it with a brood comb in spring. Broken lugs in brood boxes are also a nuisance.  

 

Sometimes if contract extraction staff have to make a decision as to whose honey they extract, they will go for the best and easiest equipment to extract, so that they can meet their minimum quota for the day or the week.  You make their job easier with good gear, it often stands you in good stead.    

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2 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

What gear do you like @jamo mainly re pricker and extractor and wax separator?

Tristan has a pretty good list of stuff above. Like he says different guys have different needs. We do things a little different to most but right now have to take the kid for a pony ride before it gets dark. Try to list our gear later.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Maggie James said:

Have good frames in the honey supers.  If it looks like it would break at the extraction plant, use it as the outside frame in the bottom brood box over winter and replace it with a brood comb in spring. Broken lugs in brood boxes are also a nuisance.  

absolutly not.

this is what i mentioned before about making beekeeping fit extraction. always make extraction fit beekeeping.

broken brood frames get lifted up into supers. they get dealt with in extraction easy enough. not hard to pull them out and do them manually.

we have semi auto pricker we can run those through and they still go through extractor. if its really munted the comb just gets scraped off and fed through wax press.

 

if you put broken frames into brood boxes, beekeeping goes downhill and then you don't have many boxes to extract.

 

3 hours ago, Maggie James said:

Sometimes if contract extraction staff have to make a decision as to whose honey they extract, they will go for the best and easiest equipment to extract, so that they can meet their minimum quota for the day or the week.  You make their job easier with good gear, it often stands you in good stead.    

 

no such thing as minimum quota with me. only rule in extraction is "go faster".

 

but certainly really bad gear makes things dificult. however every beek likes that gear being cycled out of service.

only thing that i absolutely swear at is when the monkeys go put boxes of broken frames back on the hives instead of sorting them out at base and repair or throw out.

Edited by Mummzie
boses /boxes
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