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Hobby beek - what I've observed is: 1 willow surrounding my hives dripping in sap or something, and covered in wasps; following vespex bait stations being placed out there is still wasps but nowhere near the number prior to vespex being put out. Bees are outnumbering wasps collecting the sap on the ground. 

Also I store my unused boxes in a stack (chimney) during winter and last year killed about 4 big fat wasp queen bees hibernating in the stack!! HATE the ######s so hope to do the same this year.

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Hi Philippa - I note you haven't had many posts on the forum.  Bet you didn't think that this would be such a controversial post.  Good on you for posting, and following through - very gutsy.  

l divide up my vespex into smaller containers when I get it and I store it in the beekeeping freezer. That way I only thaw a small amount for use and the rest stays good. I only use vespex or insect d

I prefer to poison wasps whenever possible but I also use top feeders as wasp traps quite successfully. When you have finished feeding the hives just leave the safety cover off and for some reason the

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14 hours ago, Maggie James said:

I have not broken the law.  The Health Minister broke the law on a number of occasions at the risk of New Zealanders' health and lives.  Therefore he should be demoted; and it appears this is something both Jacinda and Simon Bridges agree on.  

he was definitely stupid.

not sure that the health notice had been updated to make the behaviour illegal at that point though.

 

anyway, why not stick to wasps in this thread eh

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10 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

Anyway, why not stick to wasps in this thread eh

15 hours ago, Alastair said:

Expected better from you Dennis. 

 

Label instructions on pesticde packs are law. Using outside the instructions is breaking the law.

 

Sure, lots of people do it. But it's like breaking the speed limit. Lots of people do that too. But it's still against the law, and they can still be prosecuted if need be.

 

The issue I have with off label use of pesticides to kill wasps is the number of beehives that are killed or damaged by idiots making home brews.

 

A site of mine for several years did no good and gave me no honey, bees were always sickly. Then another beekeeper told me he had discovered someone using frontline and sugar to kill wasps and had spoken to her about it, he had undertaken to her to use vespex to deal with her wasp issue so she would cease doing it. My site has since comne right.

 

Most people here will go yes I'm not like that I'll just use meat. But some people including non beekeeper followers will throw in a bit of sugar to get things moving.

.

 

Maggie I saw you have a rant the other day about our health minister breaking the lock down spirit by driving 2 km's to his mountain bike track. 

 

I know exactly why he did it. He thought < I am the health minister, I know this will be OK cos I know better than everyone else> so he did it. Same issue with beekeepers flouting the law that was actually put there to protect beekeepers among others, but some beekeepers think they are just so smart the law doesn't need to apply to them.

 

What happened to the health minister? Been demoted.

Wasn't me that mentioned the MOH first

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10 hours ago, Timo said:

Hobby beek - what I've observed is: 1 willow surrounding my hives dripping in sap or something, and covered in wasps; following vespex bait stations being placed out there is still wasps but nowhere near the number prior to vespex being put out. Bees are outnumbering wasps collecting the sap on the ground. 

Also I store my unused boxes in a stack (chimney) during winter and last year killed about 4 big fat wasp queen bees hibernating in the stack!! HATE the ######s so hope to do the same this year.

There were willow trees close to my old location and at this time of year the wasps would be dropping from the trees rolling drunk with the aphid dew...not a nice sight.

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17 hours ago, Alastair said:

Expected better from you Dennis. 

Im not telling/encouraging  anyone to break the law, im asking, when you say your breaking the law, tell people what law you are breaking.Do the spadework and bring up the law in print. That way everyone learns something. 

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UGH. It's not difficult people. I have no clues on Vespex, so a simple google search shows this:

 

image.png

 

 

Now I've not seen and have no idea about the legality of using this stuff, but the simple fact you need to become an Approved User and meet NZ Legislation and stewardship requirements raises alarm bells.

 

I assume seeing as you have access to this stuff, that  you know this, so maybe a couple of reports to DOC or the manufacturer won't go amiss either if people are aware of misuse.

If you have concerns about content, then you need to REPORT IT. It's no good all raising concerns about the merits of a post in the comments if no-one reports it. And tagging me only lets me know when I visit the site. 

 

That said the original post, OP isn't asking how to use Vespex its asking how to use Frontline as an alternative, so Trevors comment stands, If it's being suggested the use of Vespex was being changed then I could understand the concerns. However, I've mentioned how to deal with that above. As that has over the counter availability and is not being used as a spray I cant find anything that relates to it being illegal to use. However, if evidence is provided I will stand corrected. The recipes are widely available across the internet.

image.png

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Im not telling/encouraging  anyone to break the law, im asking, when you say your breaking the law, tell people what law you are breaking.Do the spadework and bring up the law in print. That way everyone learns something. 

As far as I can work out when a product is approved for use in NZ under the Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines (ACVM) Act 1997, certain products are required to comply with a "Statutory Labelling" section, with explicit directions for use. Not following these instructions is an offence under the Act. 

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I cannot find the particular legislation off hand, but it does exist.

 

Once people are back to work I will contact a friend in the pesticide industry and get the legislation and come back to this thread and link it.

 

Hopefully that will put an end to this regularly recurring argument.

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I’ll stick my neck out and suggest this regular occurring argument is such because of the great kiwi DIY to get the job done attitude.

Vespex hasn’t been around forever.. pre vespex people possibly did whatever they could.. in some cases as Allistair mentioned with disastrous consequences. 

Becoming approved to use vespex is not difficult and removes the flip side to the old homemade options.. while still getting the all important predatory wasp control done. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Grant said:

I completely understand. The complaints are coming across as though you're modifying the use of vespex, which from my understanding is not the case, so I just wanted to clarify that aspect. If using frontline in an alternative manner than intended is also illegal in NZ then we'll deal with that separately, but I couldn't find anything and neither can Alastair, but there are a good many recipes out there anyway.

Thanks...I'm sure everyone on this forum shares the same desire to do whatever it takes to bring them under control...interestingly I did a nest search today and found four, only one had evidence of vespex poisoning, ie dead and dying wasps at the entrance, and still had wasps coming and going so got a dose of permethrin powder, as did the other three. So my conclusion is that not all nests are feeding on protein at any one time, or on any one protein source, so still the need to locate nests if time allows.  Now to search the rest of 500 acres😏

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42 minutes ago, Grant said:

 I couldn't find anything and neither can Alastair, but there are a good many recipes out there anyway.

 

Grant i wouldn't know how to find any legislation about anything. 

 

But that doesn't mean it does not exist.

 

For about 20 years I was a registered approved pest control applicator, for substances 3,6, and 9, which I let lapse aroung 5 years ago. To be that I had to attend 2 days training per year, plus jump through some other hoops. It was also fairly expensive to keep up which is why i let it lapse. I had it so I could legally buy and use chemicals to control wasps, because I was the Councils go to guy for wasp control and I used to kill 300 plus nests annually, a good little side earner.

 

So my point is I did the training and I know what the law is. I did have training manuals that had all the relevant legislation, but they have been chucked now I'm not doing it in a big way.

 

When I say that the labels on certain pesticides are law, I'm not just talking through a hole in my head.

 

However as I said, once people are back working I'll be contacting a former supplier and get the particular legislation and link it here. I know what the legislation is, just, not how or where to find it.

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15 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

Hi Philippa - I note you haven't had many posts on the forum.  Bet you didn't think that this would be such a controversial post.  Good on you for posting, and following through - very gutsy.  

Thanks heaps Maggie - no, I surely didnt think it would garner such controversy, but robust debate is always interesting! I have followed this forum since I started beekeeping in 2015, but only recently become a member...would rather read and learn than comment, but that may change!

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@Maggie James I agree - a few know it alls on here tend to shoot down very sensible questions rather than engage with the people asking them. I imagine Grant has some interesting data on visitors or readers or members vs “commenters” and the commenters would be a very small group.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

 I agree - a few know it alls on here tend to shoot down very sensible questions rather than engage with the people asking them. I imagine Grant has some interesting data on visitors or readers or members vs “commenters” and the commenters would be a very small group.

 

 

A few months ago, someone in our industry who only very occasionally appears or speaks at industry functions, made some comments on this forum, and was much to my frustration shot down in flames.  This was so disappointing, because I would regard that particular person as one of the most knowledgeable in the southern hemisphere in their specialist field, and I very much wanted to read what they had to say, so I could study and evaluate their comments.  

Edited by Maggie James
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46 minutes ago, Grant said:

 

I completely get that, and having done the training you would have gone through the finer points, but as a member of the public I AM searching and can't find it. I've read the box, the instructions, the safety data sheets and the distributors website. If its that illegal, it needs to be stated somewhere. For use only on dogs, carries the implication of dont use it on cats or horses, given the context of the rest of the information on the packaging.

Wouldn't off label use be covered here ?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1997/0087/latest/DLM415129.html

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Nice work Yesbut that's part of it, but there's more. I think what we are looking for is in one of those supplied links, but reading them all is more than my old head can cope with. I'll take the lazy route and talk to an expert when he is back at work, he knows all this stuff pretty much by heart.

 

As per Maggie I am regretting putting my head above the parapet on this issue, without being able to dot every i and cross every t for the people who want that. In hindsight I should have got all that before i said a thing.

 

But anyway here we are, so I will get it when I can.

Edited by Alastair
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Is below of any help?  Looks like the EPA administers the practise of pesticides and the ACVM Act is only for stuff used in agriculture, and the latter is administered by MPI.  I do note that this was last update August 2016, so maybe it is out of date.  This is the link for information, including the page below https://www.mfe.govt.nz/more/hazards/hazardous-substances/pesticides-and-other-agrichemicals

 

Pesticides and other agrichemicals

This page outlines what agrichemicals are, why they can be hazardous and how they are managed in New Zealand. 

What are agrichemicals?

Agrichemicals are chemical products used in agriculture. They include pesticides.

Why they can be hazardous

Many agrichemicals are toxic. When stored in bulk they can pose significant environmental and/or health risks, particularly in the event of accidental spills.

How they are managed in New Zealand

Agrichemicals are controlled as hazardous substances in New Zealand by the:

  • Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act (HSNO Act)
  • Ozone Layer Protection Act – for methyl bromide
  • Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Act – for substances used in agriculture.

HSNO Act codes of practice form the basis of good practice for agrichemical use.

See Codes of practice for hazardous substances [Environmental Protection Authority website] 

Many industries have their own codes of practice or standards that cover use of pesticides and agrichemicals within their particular industry.

Neonicotinoids

Neonicotinoids are a group of pesticides used to control insects that can damage some fruit, ornamental cereal and vegetable crops. They are systemic insecticides which mean they move around plant tissue to protect the entire plant from insects. 

Internationally there has been some concern that neonicotinoids accumulate in the pollen and nectar of treated plants. This may cause exposure and harm to pollinators such as bees. New Zealand has very strict controls on the use of neonicotinoids (eg, its use is restricted in areas where bees are foraging and prohibited on plants or trees while in flower).  

See also Bees and other pollinators [Environmental Protection Authority website]

Find out more

Pesticides [Environmental Protection Authority website]

Agricultural compounds and veterinary medicines [Ministry for Primary Industries website]

See also the Growsafe website. Growsafe is a non-profit organisation that promotes the safe, responsible and effective use of agrichemicals.

Reviewed:
29/08/16
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On 9/04/2020 at 2:03 PM, Philippa Thomas said:

I have large quantities of wasps feeding on bees at the entrances of my hives...and left my vespex in the fridge 6 weeks ago so is rather unappealing and can't get any more for 2 weeks☹ I have begged a small piece from a local beek which they are taking voraciously and am trying tuna mince catfood with a spray of frontline mixed in. They are taking it but not like the vespex. Does anyone have a recipe, ie best catfood plus how much frontline?

If you need some more got plenty give me a call ,I just put it in those small packets because most of our members only have a couple of hives

 

On 9/04/2020 at 2:03 PM, Philippa Thomas said:

I have large quantities of wasps feeding on bees at the entrances of my hives...and left my vespex in the fridge 6 weeks ago so is rather unappealing and can't get any more for 2 weeks☹ I have begged a small piece from a local beek which they are taking voraciously and am trying tuna mince catfood with a spray of frontline mixed in. They are taking it but not like the vespex. Does anyone have a recipe, ie best catfood plus how much frontline?

 

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