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Southern Man

Paradise extraction line - query

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Hi folks, we have a paradise honey extraction line.  We are wishing to change the set programs on it.  Heard through the grapevine that someone possible up Nelson way has already done this, would appreciate any contacts if anybody knows anything.  Thanks

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need details on what line you have and what exactly do you want to change.

 

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Hi Tristan, got a 52 frame extraction line from these guys a few years ago, the uncapper is absolutely rubbish, screw press is brilliant but probably a bit small for the unit, extractor works fine but the issue is the preset programs only hit maximum speed at the last 3.5 min of any program.  Wether it is a 12 min program or a 24min (or anything in between). Unfortunately Paradise honey is second to none for poor service in my opinion.  Were wanting to reprogram it so that we hit maximum speed quicker on each program and stay at the maximum speed for longer.  Possibly also increase maximum speed.  Presently set for 179rpm which is adequate for Kamahi, clover, but not really quite fast enough for other honeys. 

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Just out of curiosity, what do you find wrong with the uncapper? One i saw looked pretty bog standard for a non pricker uncapper.

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29 minutes ago, Southern Man said:

the uncapper is absolutely rubbish,

thats a little odd, tho i don't know how much they have changed the design in recent years. what doesn't it do?

 

29 minutes ago, Southern Man said:

xtractor works fine but the issue is the preset programs only hit maximum speed at the last 3.5 min of any program.  Wether it is a 12 min program or a 24min (or anything in between). Unfortunately Paradise honey is second to none for poor service in my opinion.  Were wanting to reprogram it so that we hit maximum speed quicker on each program and stay at the maximum speed for longer.  Possibly also increase maximum speed.  Presently set for 179rpm which is adequate for Kamahi, clover, but not really quite fast enough for other honeys. 

 

most likely it will have a vsd/vfd. find the vsd manufactures manual for it and reprogram it to whatever you like. 

however i would cation you about increasing speeds or speeding it up to early. if the frames have to much honey left in them you can tear the combs apart, and put to much load on the extractor and start breaking things especially with years of extraction.

 

i forgot one thing, if your increasing max speed check the running amps. switch the display to show amps and make sure you have some head room for amps under acceleration otherwise you may trip the cutout.

also keep an eye on braking resistor temp.

Edited by tristan
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appreciate the information tristian, we will keep an eye on the braking resister temperature.  Had thought of everything else.  Do you have on eof these extractors?

Have answered the uncapping question in response to alastair.

18 hours ago, Alastair said:

Just out of curiosity, what do you find wrong with the uncapper? One i saw looked pretty bog standard for a non pricker uncapper.

Hi alastair - bought the unit just after wanganui conference.  It came with the new star uncapper underneath the knives.  It worked fine without any load,  but under load the frames do not feed in at exactly the same time, one side quarter to half a second faster than the other side which means you had frames misfeeding. also the intake chain spacing was a little out - once again allowed the frames to feed in out of alignment.  We did our first upgrade of the machine to fix these issues.  The star uncapper was a good idea in theory, but found you needed to have the water temperature at least 75-80 degrees or it would block up with wax. I was told that it would work like a pricker, ideal for heather honey or manuka, reality is that all that it would do is uncap any missed cells. Biggest problem with the star uncapper is once the frames went past the uncapping knives, and there was a problem, there was absolutely no way to reverse the frame or get it out which meat we had to completely destroy the frame piece by piece to get it out.  A real problem for plastic frames - so we took it out. Because there is no clutch, it will keep putting pressure on until something breaks, the knives will break right through a plastic frame if it is misaligned if the chain doesnt break first. 

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Ouch, that does sound bad. 😳

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1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

Do you have one of these extractors?

no.

i understand they are not great with manuka which is why so many stick with swinging basket extractors despite having to be manually loaded.

have looked at the system but we deal with a huge range of different frames which can cause issues.

 

1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

t worked fine without any load,  but under load the frames do not feed in at exactly the same time, one side quarter to half a second faster than the other side which means you had frames misfeeding. also the intake chain spacing was a little out - once again allowed the frames to feed in out of alignment. 

 

1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

Because there is no clutch, it will keep putting pressure on until something breaks, the knives will break right through a plastic frame if it is misaligned if the chain doesnt break first. 

 

unless they have changed things, the infeed should be adjustable. the drive chains run at the same speed (common drive shaft) but frame can drag as it feeds. have a look at where its dragging. big issue is the decapper not being levelled correctly and the frame hangs at the wrong angle making one side drag. also adjust the spring pressure on the guides so it grabs the frame a bit so the drive chain pushes the frame down and levels the frame.

 

surprised there is no clutch. sure someone hasn't missed it its not very big and sometimes they rust together, or are the using the overload feature of the VSD to stop it instead of the clutch. 

 

pics would help.

 

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2 hours ago, tristan said:

no.

i understand they are not great with manuka which is why so many stick with swinging basket extractors despite having to be manually loaded.

have looked at the system but we deal with a huge range of different frames which can cause issues.

 

The most advantageous part of the horizontal extractors is not having to handle all the frames several times.  Yes frame tolerance is an issue, we persisted with what we had for the first two seasons, then did a heavy cull for two seasons of frames that wouldnt go through easily.  Now dont have any issues.   

2 hours ago, tristan said:

unless they have changed things, the infeed should be adjustable. the drive chains run at the same speed (common drive shaft) but frame can drag as it feeds. have a look at where its dragging. big issue is the decapper not being levelled correctly and the frame hangs at the wrong angle making one side drag. also adjust the spring pressure on the guides so it grabs the frame a bit so the drive chain pushes the frame down and levels the frame.

 

fully aware of all that, there wasnt enough adjustment in the stopper that lift up to feed frames, ended up welding two different sized pieces of rod on the feed chain side to overcome the timing issue.  If the frame goes in slightly wrong we can end up with one lug on the wrong side of the pusher on the drive chain.  It happens very quickly, if we dont catch it happening within 1 - 1.5seconds it can be hard to reverse to fix the problem.

2 hours ago, tristan said:

 

surprised there is no clutch. sure someone hasn't missed it its not very big and sometimes they rust together, or are the using the overload feature of the VSD to stop it instead of the clutch. 

 

pics would help.

 

No definitely no clutch whatsoever, we are still considering fitting a clutch to it, but considering we are always having to "baby"it a wee bit despite three major upgrades, if I had the money I would probably just upgrade to a beetech - they run forever, with no problems.

3 hours ago, Alastair said:

Ouch, that does sound bad. 😳

 

yes it is a pain in the backside.  We can still make it work, but it is tempermental, despite doing three major upgrades to fix problems, the outfeed chain is now causing an issue - because of the forces, bent most of the pushing lugs on the chain up a little, the chain is tending to run over the top of the frames rather than pushing them out.  We will probably take the chains off and reverse them to solve this short term, but as we keep extracting they are likely to start bending back the other way, causing metal fatigue and then braking.  I maybe need to look out for one of these newbees going belly up who has got a very flash, almost new beetech uncapper for sale that I can purchase for $10, or possibly for a drum of honey (same price equivalent)

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1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

, there wasnt enough adjustment in the stopper that lift up to feed frames, ended up welding two different sized pieces of rod on the feed chain side to overcome the timing issue.  If the frame goes in slightly wrong we can end up with one lug on the wrong side of the pusher on the drive chain.  It happens very quickly, if we dont catch it happening within 1 - 1.5seconds it can be hard to reverse to fix the problem.

got a pic of that? certainly if one side doesn't grip well or drags on the side of the frame it will miss time.

i'm going by mem, its been a long time since we ran the decapper.

 

1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

No definitely no clutch whatsoever, we are still considering fitting a clutch to it,

in that case i would lower the overload setting in the VSD.

you can buy replacement pins easy enough. big thing is making sure the rods they fit into roll rather than skid.

 

1 hour ago, Southern Man said:

almost new beetech uncapper for sale

not sure what one you mean.

beetech have been out of business for a long time now. i'm not sure they even made decappers.

if you have a pic i would like to see it.

 

4 hours ago, Southern Man said:

the outfeed chain is now causing an issue - because of the forces, bent most of the pushing lugs on the chain up a little, the chain is tending to run over the top of the frames rather than pushing them out.  We will probably take the chains off and reverse them to solve this short term

 just to be clear here, you mean the rollers that go across from chain to chain.

if the drive pins for those are bent it can screw up the timing for the infeed. also chain tension effects that as well. if one side is too slack it will miss feed.

if the chain is jumping the frame it sounds like loose chains.

 

sorry if i'm telling you how to suck eggs here.

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6 hours ago, tristan said:

not sure what one you mean.

beetech have been out of business for a long time now. i'm not sure they even made decappers.

if you have a pic i would like to see it.

 

 

Sorry I meant beequip uncapper.  

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21 hours ago, Southern Man said:

Sorry I meant beequip uncapper.  

they are basically the same design. with exception of the newer paradise ones are 'improved' versions.

no doubt simplified to reduce cost of manufacture.

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