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Pasture/clover honey prices

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4 minutes ago, Alastair said:

So what's up with that Nikki? Waiting for the preferred price for the mono manuka, or, can't sell at any price?

they are buying, but just from companies they have already made deals with some time ago.

word on the grapevine is that nz has had a good season and there is lots of surplus honey. don't expect good prices. your milage may vary.

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I do not see how it can be possible we are producing more manuka, than we were before the standard came in. The current honey mountain is all stuff that used to get blended but now is not.

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4 minutes ago, tristan said:

they are buying, but just from companies they have already made deals with some time ago.

word on the grapevine is that nz has had a good season and there is lots of surplus honey. don't expect good prices. your milage may vary.

Yip. I wonder how much clover and pasture was produced? Plenty of Bush Kanuka,mono,multi . Focus has been on the M, especially lately. 

I have 50 boxes of Kanuka, which I left on. 

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51 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I do not see how it can be possible we are producing more manuka, than we were before the standard came in. The current honey mountain is all stuff that used to get blended but now is not.

the problem is not the manuka side of things, its all the other honey's. they where not selling much of it, but now they have more than what they can sell, add to that a good season, there is possibly going to be a big oversupply. at least until they can get their non-manuka markets up and running again to a sizeable volume.

 

one of the other issues they can run into is not having enough manuka to keep shelves filled and loose shelf space. then have to find other places to sell. an issue small niche products can run into.

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2 hours ago, Alastair said:

So what's up with that Nikki? Waiting for the preferred price for the mono manuka, or, can't sell at any price?

We didn't even get as far as prices. Just 'no, we're not buying new honey' 

2 hours ago, Alastair said:

So what's up with that Nikki? Waiting for the preferred price for the mono manuka, or, can't sell at any price?

I guess if we were to take $4 it would sell. But I'd ike to be in business this time next year. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tristan said:

the problem is not the manuka side of things, its all the other honey's


I have to disagree strongly, the problem is very definitely with Manuka just as much as any other honeys.


I also believe there is probably more blending going on now than there was before the MPI standard

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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57 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

We didn't even get as far as prices. Just 'no, we're not buying new honey' 

I guess if we were to take $4 it would sell. But I'd ike to be in business this time next year. 

Yep ... Honeyaires .... but broke. We need a lightbulb momment. A 240V whack to the brain to induce a wave of lateral thought.

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1 hour ago, tristan said:

the problem is not the manuka side of things, its all the other honey's. they where not selling much of it, but now they have more than what they can sell, add to that a good season, there is possibly going to be a big oversupply. at least until they can get their non-manuka markets up and running again to a sizeable volume.

 

one of the other issues they can run into is not having enough manuka to keep shelves filled and loose shelf space. then have to find other places to sell. an issue small niche products can run into.

I belief there is a ship load of M. Most in my area chase that to the ends of the island. Not pasture. That's spring grounds. Bush blends go hand in hand with M. It's often an early/late crop in the chase. Blend ingredients. 

How much pasture honey  is produced in Northland? 

The non Manuka markets have no great value, a few bucks in it for buyers. Why develop that unless you do big volumes? 

Just now, jamesc said:

Yep ... Honeyaires .... but broke. We need a lightbulb momment. A 240V whack to the brain to induce a wave of lateral thought.

Find some mushrooms

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Well this is quite a revelation. To me, anyway.

 

What is the explanation for the collapse of the manuka market?

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28 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

The non Manuka markets have no great value, a few bucks in it for buyers. Why develop that unless you do big volumes? 

Well, keep believing that if you like but $30 bucks a kg in Malaysia is a good "few bucks" in my mind. There are actually a lot of markets out there giving good profits for the exporter.

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Ali could you explain how, and why, honey is being sold for $30 a kg in Malaysia?

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6 minutes ago, Ali said:

Well, keep believing that if you like but $30 bucks a kg in Malaysia is a good "few bucks" in my mind. There are actually a lot of markets out there giving good profits for the exporter.

And is that clover,pasture? 

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1 hour ago, nikki watts said:

We didn't even get as far as prices. Just 'no, we're not buying new honey' 

I guess if we were to take $4 it would sell. But I'd ike to be in business this time next year. 

At least you have a store of the right honey that will eventually find a market .

Even if its at the price that beeks were getting for their non manuka honey a couple of yrs ago .

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8 hours ago, CraBee said:

Quite strong opinion here but do you have any facts/evidence to back it up?  One of the only examples I can think of suggests the opposite - Comvita with three or four years of losses and having to go to the market again recently to raise more capital....

How many packer/exporters you are aware of are in the position of the bulk of beekeepers? 

The big C plays an interesting game. A great profit for the past year until they choose to "write down" the value of some of there investments with a resulting very much lower tax bill.

Accounting methods of choice not compulsion.  

The main share holding directors/owners have been doing extremely well out of the company for a long time and I am sure still are. Many millions have slipped by the small shareholders into the pockets of the few.

18 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Ali could you explain how, and why, honey is being sold for $30 a kg in Malaysia?

Last month, on their retail shelves, packed and exported from NZ. Yes, I realise there is retail mark up involved.

 

15 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

And is that clover,pasture? 

Yes, it most certainly is.

 

The why: they have a large thirst for NZ food products, the reputation of NZ product is simply huge. Great outlet for NZ product sourced at "world honey price" from all suffering little NZ beeks.

Singapore? Our honey is revered like a true nectar of the gods.

I think our eyes are so messed up by the sweat and tears we just can't see what is going on.

We haven't heard from Adam for some time but I can bet my last hive that his bosses don't work for the peanuts we do as beekeepers.

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43 minutes ago, Ali said:

How many packer/exporters you are aware of are in the position of the bulk of beekeepers? 

The big C plays an interesting game. A great profit for the past year until they choose to "write down" the value of some of there investments with a resulting very much lower tax bill.

Accounting methods of choice not compulsion.  

The main share holding directors/owners have been doing extremely well out of the company for a long time and I am sure still are. Many millions have slipped by the small shareholders into the pockets of the few.

Last month, on their retail shelves, packed and exported from NZ. Yes, I realise there is retail mark up involved.

 

Yes, it most certainly is.

 

The why: they have a large thirst for NZ food products, the reputation of NZ product is simply huge. Great outlet for NZ product sourced at "world honey price" from all suffering little NZ beeks.

Singapore? Our honey is revered like a true nectar of the gods.

I think our eyes are so messed up by the sweat and tears we just can't see what is going on.

We haven't heard from Adam for some time but I can bet my last hive that his bosses don't work for the peanuts we do as beekeepers.

OMG - have you actually had a look at Comvitas independently audited results for the last 3 years??  They do not make pretty reading and most certainly do not show “great profits” - quite the opposite!!  That’s why the business has had a major restructure with a large number of job losses.  
 

$30 a kg honey sitting on a shelf in Singapore doesn’t mean it’s actually selling.  What was the brand and when was it packed?  
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Ted said:

OMG - have you actually had a look at Comvitas independently audited results for the last 3 years??  They do not make pretty reading and most certainly do not show “great profits” - quite the opposite!!  That’s why the business has had a major restructure with a large number of job losses.  

Then you would have noted what the owner/director/ share holders took from the company????? oh and the share handouts to "significant" staff??? Wouldn't you have liked a 100,000 shares at $1.00 cost (you only had to put up 10 cents) with a market price in excess of $9.00 at the time? Oh yes, they are doing so badly poor things.

"quite the opposite" after chosen accounting efforts?

The only ones who did badly was the good old mug small shareholder as usual.

Edited by Ali

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8 minutes ago, Ali said:

Then you would have noted what the owner/director/ share holders took from the company????? oh and the share handouts to "significant" staff??? Wouldn't you have liked a 100,000 shares at $1.00 cost (you only had to put up 10 cents) with a market price in excess of $9.00 at the time? Oh yes, they are doing so badly poor things.

"quite the opposite" after chosen accounting efforts?

The only ones who did badly was the good old mug small shareholder as usual.

Showing your ignorance here and providing false and fictitious information.  The partly paid share scheme offers staff shares at 10 cents each but as the name suggests they are only partly paid and not in the staff members control.  If they are sold the staff member has to pay the balance of what they were purchased at - for example if the share price is $9 at the time of purchase they will have to pay $8.90 at time of sale.  At the current share price they are obviously not doing very well in that scheme!!

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3 minutes ago, Ted said:

Showing your ignorance here and providing false and fictitious information.  The partly paid share scheme offers staff shares at 10 cents each but as the name suggests they are only partly paid and not in the staff members control.  If they are sold the staff member has to pay the balance of what they were purchased at - for example if the share price is $9 at the time of purchase they will have to pay $8.90 at time of sale.  At the current share price they are obviously not doing very well in that scheme!!

Well Ted old chap I beg to differ. The price to the significant was $1.00 per share with 10cents down to secure them. It's stated in those very same audited accounts that were publicly available at the time.

I note that there has been a change to what is publicly available now too, in as much as the style and format has changed considerably. Much less transparent in my opinion.

Lets just be good blokes and accept we differ in opinion before a Mod picks up on your personal attack on me in your last post.

My last post on this subject old chap.

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2 minutes ago, Ali said:

Well Ted old chap I beg to differ. The price to the significant was $1.00 per share with 10cents down to secure them. It's stated in those very same audited accounts that were publicly available at the time.

I note that there has been a change to what is publicly available now too, in as much as the style and format has changed considerably. Much less transparent in my opinion.

Lets just be good blokes and accept we differ in opinion before a Mod picks up on your personal attack on me in your last post.

My last post on this subject old chap.

I’m sorry but I most certainly didn’t make a personal attack on you.  What you are saying is 100% incorrect and I am simply ensuring anyone else reading these posts knows it.  Just as well it’s your last post on this subject or you might find Comvitas lawyers knocking on your door!!😉

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8 hours ago, Ted said:

$30 a kg honey sitting on a shelf in Singapore doesn’t mean it’s actually selling.  What was the brand and when was it packed?  

What does $30 a kilo on the shelf mean then? Just sitting there collecting dust? 

Generally, at what price does our pasture sell on the overseas shelf then? 

I don't know. 

Bit of early morning research 

Fair price and redmart. Two Singapore supermarkets. 

Lots of varying degrees of Manuka. Nothing cheap. Some RewaRewa, and West coast whatever. 

No N.Z pasture in sight. Nothing. 

@Ted if you can direct us to where our

Pasture is going??  

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Did a little Googling about what honey sells for in Malaysia.

 

Basic honey varieties are same or cheaper than here. But they must be a country of honey officionados, because the "boutique" brands if that is the right word, can be very expensive indeed.

 

Here's a couple of links, the ringgit (RM) is worth around 38 NZ cents.

 

https://jewelpie.com/where-to-buy-pure-local-honey-in-malaysia/

 

https://www.mudah.my/Malaysia/100+pure+honey-for-sale

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3 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

What does $30 a kilo on the shelf mean then? Just sitting there collecting dust? 

Generally, at what price does our pasture sell on the overseas shelf then? 

I don't know. 

Bit of early morning research 

Fair price and redmart. Two Singapore supermarkets. 

Lots of varying degrees of Manuka. Nothing cheap. Some RewaRewa, and West coast whatever. 

No N.Z pasture in sight. Nothing. 

@Ted if you can direct us to where our

Pasture is going??  

The point I was making regarding $30 honey was just because it’s sitting on a shelf doesn’t mean consumers are actually buying it or if they are the volume would be insignificant.

 

As to where our pasture honey is going - no idea - is it going anywhere at the moment??

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7 hours ago, Ted said:

The point I was making regarding $30 honey was just because it’s sitting on a shelf doesn’t mean consumers are actually buying it or if they are the volume would be insignificant.

 

As to where our pasture honey is going - no idea - is it going anywhere at the moment??

I am no marketer or shop owner. 

Why would there be 30 buck honey for sale if it doesn't sell? That's my point. 

Of course it must sell, why would it sit there otherwise? 

Giant is another big Singapore supermarket.

The only clover from NZ, by Sweet Meadow. At 16 for 500gm. At the high end of pricing.

Sweet Meadow the only NZ provider, Manuka as well. 

Who's sweet Meadow?

15 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

I am no marketer or shop owner. 

Why would there be 30 buck honey for sale if it doesn't sell? That's my point. 

Of course it must sell, why would it sit there otherwise? 

Giant is another big Singapore supermarket.

The only clover from NZ, by Sweet Meadow. At 16 for 500gm. At the high end of pricing.

Sweet Meadow the only NZ provider, Manuka as well. 

Who's sweet Meadow?

Never mind, a Te Puke operator.

16 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

I am no marketer or shop owner. 

Why would there be 30 buck honey for sale if it doesn't sell? That's my point. 

Of course it must sell, why would it sit there otherwise? 

Giant is another big Singapore supermarket.

The only clover from NZ, by Sweet Meadow. At 16 for 500gm. At the high end of pricing.

Sweet Meadow the only NZ provider, Manuka as well. 

Who's sweet Meadow?

Never mind, a Te Puke operator.

It's Comvita

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3 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Good info. Today we have spend a lot more on keeping bees. That's not accounted for.

Inflation is a weird thing. Housing had become super expensive, but it's never truly represented in the cost of living over time. Like so many other things.

The reality, we need better than inflation.

To say we aren't doing too bad....it's actually quite depressing that were getting similar prices 20 years ago.

I think I would prefer 2.85 in 1999.

I don't feel I am in any position to improve my lot, don't have the resources or knowledge. Like many smaller operators.

I leave it to specialists, who can do as much or little as needed. And I trust them to do the best for us. 

 

To say we staying with inflation is a good thing. And some agree. Is that good enough? Not for me. 

 

The specialists in buying and distribution could try living off 4 50 a kilo. Is that the best you can do over 20. Yes 20, years! Was it too hard? Or no real desire? Or are we muppets taking a caning for profit? 

 

 

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