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Pasture/clover honey prices

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42 minutes ago, Bighands said:

HAve you had a pollen analysis done on your Kamahi at all?

No .

But I am pretty sure that when I take a newly capped frame off in the first week of dec that its pretty much all kamahi .

There is the odd other thing flowering but it is very common here and has such a strong flowering every year .

But a pollen test would be good .

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5 hours ago, kaihoka said:

No .

But I am pretty sure that when I take a newly capped frame off in the first week of dec that its pretty much all kamahi .

There is the odd other thing flowering but it is very common here and has such a strong flowering every year .

But a pollen test would be good .

That is the only scientific way to tell exactly what the honey is.

 

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Once I gave sample of my black locust honey to one company buyer at large. They return the answer that in my honey is too much of pollen of false indigo-bush. Area where it grows was nearest about 20km. The few plants if somehow were somewhere near cannot influence the black locust honey so much. They tried to reduce the value of my honey. I declined their offer, next buyer at large said samples were OK for black locust and paid rightful price.. 

At the moment I felt pride cause my bees travel for forage 20 km and bring honey and pollen back to hives..

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10 hours ago, tommy dave said:

which route(s)?

 

saw clover blend at the supermarket priced $5 for 450gm today..

Which market and label? 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

 

Up until an hour ago @jamesc did not know either.  But a good session with the Dr after a day with the bees will make anyone an expert on anything..

 

LOL

Yep ....spent most of my youth climbing .... North Wales on weekends , winter ice in the Cairngorms, summer s at Zinal in France, then into the Italian alps with my mates Jamie and Malcolm. Never went down to the Dolomites, but my cousin did  and took quite a fall, then hit paradise in New Zealand  and the southern alps , couple of weeks at Yosemite plus a few forays into the Himalaya.

Well there ya go ....That was back in the good old days . It all took a back seat when bee numbers started to grow and I took a wife ! The young fellah lost my Iceaxe in a 'Glory hole' in the creek a year or so ago when he was digging  for gold and the crampons are under the bed. The dog has commandered the sleeping bag and the tent has long rotted.

But like Sir Ed said once "I still get a buzz just seeing the snow and ice in the gullies from afar".

 

Edited by jamesc
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51 minutes ago, jamesc said:

This was on the Zoji La .... young and mad! Enroute to the Sacred Mountain

DAA419E4-B443-4117-A443-C9FBDCEC2943.jpeg

Mt climbing on a bike now that's how i would do it- but it would have a motor

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6 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Which market and label? 

Countdown, Kilbirnie, Wellington. mother earth. Just checked their online shop to confirm and it's there too

facebook-like-icon.jpg
SHOP.COUNTDOWN.CO.NZ

Shop for groceries online and checkout great free recipes at...

 

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18 hours ago, jamesc said:

Well there yah go .... I talked to Pics a while ago suggesting that honey and peanut butter would be a big hit in the US ..... after a time I spent communing with El Capitan in Yosemite .... and peanut butter and honey was the food of choice while hanging from a carabiner.

Pics told me that peanut butter and honey didn't mix .... new project fro @Boot .... ah ther yah go , I've given the trade secrets away again !

 

 

Yep they can mix. There are multiple methods of blending a high oil content food with honey.

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On 25/05/2020 at 7:23 PM, Ted said:

There is no “CraBee Figure”.  He looks at what the market pays for that particular product (before he produces it) then deducts his predicted costs.  If there’s no margin or insufficient margin he doesn’t produce said product and does something else with his time.

I find this interesting ..... I was having a think about this today ....profits and margins.

 

The bee business is a funny 'ole business .

We open our bees in mid August and gasp in amazement at the quality ..... good or bad .... and scheme about how we are going to make a dollar or two.

The catch is ....unlike the Beef or Dairy or Sheep, or venison, or Grain ..... we have not much idea about how much honey we are going to make, and even less of an idea about how much we are gonna get paid for our product.

The proof comes in February as the crop is extracted , when we try to hawk it around the buyers.

 

The thing is, I have to produce the honey in good faith, hoping like heck I can find a market that will pay me the price I want, as of course, I am a price setter - not a margin taker.

If I wanted to be a margin taker I should probably sell all my bees and start  buying and  selling other peoples crops in the space of a week or so. 

 

Anyway  that was one big thought for the day.

The other was that  after cracking quite a few more lids today, I think next year we will re enter the Nuc business.

 

Must be a margin in that !

 

 

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00A6FEE8-7908-4DBA-80CA-F228B21B17C7.jpeg

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The other thought is that @Grant has changed thew format so I can't run photos into the script at the same time .....🥰

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8 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The other thought is that @Grant has changed thew format so I can't run photos into the script at the same time .....🥰

Eh? Sorry what have I missed?

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Um, well .... ok .... my photos are on the phone. I do the writing on the computer. It used to be I would submit the writing and then submit the photo from the phone and they would all get rolled into one. Now the photo comes through as an after thought .... no big deal, but for us perfectionist's it's a bit , you know ,  untidy .😷

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50 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I find this interesting ..... I was having a think about this today ....profits and margins.

 

The bee business is a funny 'ole business .

We open our bees in mid August and gasp in amazement at the quality ..... good or bad .... and scheme about how we are going to make a dollar or two.

The catch is ....unlike the Beef or Dairy or Sheep, or venison, or Grain ..... we have not much idea about how much honey we are going to make, and even less of an idea about how much we are gonna get paid for our product.

The proof comes in February as the crop is extracted , when we try to hawk it around the buyers.

 

The thing is, I have to produce the honey in good faith, hoping like heck I can find a market that will pay me the price I want, as of course, I am a price setter - not a margin taker.

If I wanted to be a margin taker I should probably sell all my bees and start  buying and  selling other peoples crops in the space of a week or so. 

 

Anyway  that was one big thought for the day.

The other was that  after cracking quite a few more lids today, I think next year we will re enter the Nuc business.

 

Must be a margin in that !

 

 

So when it comes to meat production your content with being a price taker but not with honey??  Why??

Agree it is much harder to predict your honey production compared to meat production but I think we can all make a pretty accurate estimate of what your white honey and dew is going to be worth this coming season!!

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Two different markets. 

Meat producers are conditioned to working to a schedule.  With a schedule we can decide whether to sell store or fatten.  Case in point, this year we didn't buy in weaner deer to fatten .... the schedule price offered in six months time tells me I will not make a dime carrying them through the winter. No margin mate.

 

Honey .... there is no schedule for six months time. The mentality is slightly different .... we all hope for the best ....if I can't sell bulk then maybe I can find a retail outlet somewhere for some of our packed stuff.

The other thought is world situations ..... Chinese Beekeepers have been in lockdown , some are complaining of having missed crops ..... imagine half a million Chinese Beekeepers missing their crops ..... my white honey might be looking quite good then ...eh !

 

Farmers are traditional , which leads to the question , are  Beekeepers  gamblers, and if so ,are they  naturally optimistic ?

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Posted (edited)

Don't get me wrong Uncle @Ted, I would love to be a price taker on honey.

 It would make life a lot simpler if at the beginning of July I knew within a few cents what the next seasons crop would be worth.

Imagine, being able to plan what crop to put your bees on , if the margin for clover wasn't there then maybe more get shovelled into pollination and  I'd have peace of mind of sending a unit load up north to pollinate kiwi's knowing that I'd covered costs to pay wages and make a make some wages for myself.

Imagine knowing that the buyers were offering $7/kg for Rata,, $6.50/kg for clover and $8/kg for Kanuka .... I could plan to load the digger onto the truck at this time of year and haul it to the secret spot and get the access sorted, rather than doing a rush job at the last minute and everyone getting stressed.

 

 And Imagine.... if the prices offered  were just plain old garbage all around and we decided to run the bees easy care on the dew,  saving a heap of dough on airfares for the Poles to get over here for the summer .... we could go fishing.

 

Imagine when  the Honey Industry grows out of it's Huggies and pulls on it's  Tradies on and undergoes a resistance ratio check ....

 

Then that might be an industry worth investing in.

 

 

Edited by jamesc
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23 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Two different markets. 

Meat producers are conditioned to working to a schedule.  With a schedule we can decide whether to sell store or fatten.  Case in point, this year we didn't buy in weaner deer to fatten .... the schedule price offered in six months time tells me I will not make a dime carrying them through the winter. No margin mate.

 

Honey .... there is no schedule for six months time. The mentality is slightly different .... we all hope for the best ....if I can't sell bulk then maybe I can find a retail outlet somewhere for some of our packed stuff.

The other thought is world situations ..... Chinese Beekeepers have been in lockdown , some are complaining of having missed crops ..... imagine half a million Chinese Beekeepers missing their crops ..... my white honey might be looking quite good then ...eh !

 

Farmers are traditional , which leads to the question , are  Beekeepers  gamblers, and if so ,are they  naturally optimistic ?

So isn’t the store market directly influenced by the schedule price?  If the schedule is low is the store market not equivalently low?

Interesting you won’t fatten deer because there is no margin but you are happy to continue producing honey at no margin.  That’s optimism!!😀

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Yes, the store market is affected by the schedule price.  Mostly it works. This spring it didn't and a lot of people got burnt when Covid hit. 

The catch is with deer is that we have to go onto the market and buy deer. If the margin looks to be low, you'd be better off to save your cash and do something else with it.

Honey is different .... and yet it is not .

We have the Bees. Bees make honey, we can't stop them doing that, but we can decide what sort of honey they chase.

If there is no market for honey, you can't sell a hive to the works and get paid out for it like you do a sheep or a cow in a drought. 

When  you let  the hive  die it costs time and money to resurrect it, and you probably miss the market when it bounces back.

Running a Bee business is a long-term investment. You don't just jump in and out according to the market. You ride the highs and the lows, save yer pennies in the highs and chuck em out in the lows, and somewhere inbetween is an average.

We are digruntedly happy to produce honey at no margin because I know it will keep, and the market will come right ..... sometime .... and as a few 'Old Timers' have often said,' you need a crop on the hive, a crop in the shed, and a crop in the bank. We have the first two, so there is good reason to be optimistic.

 

It's as  frustrating as heck  to not have all three crops..... but as they say, at this moment in time "It is what it is."

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Well for what my 2 cents is worth to you @jamesc I would say... after gazing into my crystal ball.. . if youre not prepared to meet the market now and clear the drum backlog out.. you should be prepared to pull up your tradies, dust off your builders apron and extend your storage shed to ride out this storm.. 

 

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You are probably right @Stoney ....it's the principle of the matter .  Not sure what Uncle @Ted's humble pie taste's like.😅

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Times have changed we have gone back to pre Manuka days.

The big prices we were getting for non Manuka was an aberration and totally due to it being blended. 
Every man and his dog got on the honey producer bandwagon and overnight non beekeepers and business people became honey producers.

The sale of nucs, hives, queens etc went through the roof and anyone in the industry before the boom made a lot of money.

There was a huge increase in new vehicles, more staff, more extraction facilities etc.

Those that came late and paid big money to get into it will fail if they don’t have Manuka sites or have heaps of staff and debt.
I don’t see us ever getting $8kg for non Manuka honey anytime soon.

 

Before the boom there were very few big outfits, most Were small family run businesses where any staff they employed were cut loose over winter and hired again in Spring. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, jamesc said:

You are probably right @Stoney ....it's the principle of the matter .  Not sure what Uncle @Ted's humble pie taste's like.😅

Believe me nephew @jamesc if you manage to clear out your shed over the next year or two at $8 or over I will gladly eat humble pie and tell you what it tastes like!!

Edited by Ted
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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Times have changed we have gone back to pre Manuka days.

The big prices we were getting for non Manuka was an aberration and totally due to it being blended. 
Every man and his dog got on the honey producer bandwagon and overnight non beekeepers and business people became honey producers.

The sale of nucs, hives, queens etc went through the roof and anyone in the industry before the boom made a lot of money.

There was a huge increase in new vehicles, more staff, more extraction facilities etc.

Those that came late and paid big money to get into it will fail if they don’t have Manuka sites or have heaps of staff and debt.
I don’t see us ever getting $8kg for non Manuka honey anytime soon.

 

Before the boom there were very few big outfits, most Were small family run businesses where any staff they employed were cut loose over winter and hired again in Spring. 

And that is it in a nutshell!!  100%.

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5 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Times have changed we have gone back to pre Manuka days.

The big prices we were getting for non Manuka was an aberration and totally due to it being blended. 
Every man and his dog got on the honey producer bandwagon and overnight non beekeepers and business people became honey producers.

The sale of nucs, hives, queens etc went through the roof and anyone in the industry before the boom made a lot of money.

There was a huge increase in new vehicles, more staff, more extraction facilities etc.

Those that came late and paid big money to get into it will fail if they don’t have Manuka sites or have heaps of staff and debt.
I don’t see us ever getting $8kg for non Manuka honey anytime soon.

 

Before the boom there were very few big outfits, most Were small family run businesses where any staff they employed were cut loose over winter and hired again in Spring. 

Haiaha .... you are what you eat, your thoughts become your actions .. so if you really don't want 8 bucks a kilo, then keep on thinking like that.

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