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Here's my take, and i get this not only from my own hives but also that i get numerous requests from hobbyists with near dead hives to go fix them. If the issue is mites but the queen is still alive,

Come on Folks.  Matt has just asked to keep things from getting personal and that is immediately followed by a personal attack. I don't want to give warnings or put people into moderation, but I

If you treat with bayvarol you can still take the honey with Apivar you aren’t supposed too.  

Reality is that our bees have been modifying to varroa for 20 odd year less than European, and that is along time in evolution genetically with such a short life-cycle and also we learnt from overseas experience, and all rotated our treatments way earlier to avoid development of resistance. 

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6 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

learnt from overseas experience, and all rotated our treatments way earlier to avoid development of resistance. 

Those of us who are open minded and understand the ramifications of manufactured chemical resistance have rotated our treatments in an orderly seasonal fashion

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1 hour ago, Maggie James said:

What is appropriate for one climate, is not for another.  If I removed all brood late summer/autumn my hives wouldn't get thru the winter.   For a hive to over winter well it MUST go into the winter with young bees. 

 

sorry but that is just a very ignorant excuse because you do not want to believe something might work that you never even considered trying. Ive actually already done it here as well, results were the same as in europe albeit only with a few hives. But I see no reason why it should not always work perfectly (on the contrary you get away with doing it much later than you had to do if there was an actual cold winter)

 

Of course differences in climate can make a difference, but its usually the other way around. What works in climates with way colder extremes (Germany does actually get hotter in summer so its not generally colder) usually will also work in more temperate climates. Things that work in temperate climates however will come blowing into your face when temperatures suddenly reach -15 degrees. Thats also why hive losses generally are lower in warmer climates (check the statistics if you dont believe me) you just get away with more things.

Beehives do need HEALTHY and longliving Bees to make it through winter, both will not come from diseased brood. Most treatments are not quick enough if infestation levels are extremely high. If all brood is removed the queen will ramp up her egg laying immediately (you can do the math how long it takes her to reach the roughly 10000 eggs a hive needs to overwinter).

 

It is fine if you at the moment get away with just putting in strips of synthetics 2 times a year and praying. I do hope that this will continue to work a long time. If things develop like they did in Europe and the US (and I have no reason to doubt that -  but im not a scientist) they wont. In a grim scenario like that you'll either stop having bees or adapt and find new methods. Id keep an open attitude towards alternatives or at least look whats happening overseas. With regards to varroa you can actually look into the future there. Saves you from having to reinvent the wheel.

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20 minutes ago, Christi An said:

sorry but that is just a very ignorant excuse because you do not want to believe something might work that you never even considered trying.

As Surgent Schultz would say to Colonel Klink at Stalag 13

"I know NUTHING!!"

 

There are a number of people who have made posts on this thread who are poles apart on the political spectrum, but the reality is they appear to seem in agreeance on this issue.  Are you calling all these people from various parts of NZ ignorant?  I am very open minded, as I am sure the scientific and beekeeping community of NZ would attest to.  I am sure there are a great number of people who watch this forum are equally open minded. 

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16 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

As Surgent Schultz would say to Colonel Klink at Stalag 13

"I know NUTHING!!"

 

There are a number of people who have made posts on this thread who are poles apart on the political spectrum, but the reality is they appear to seem in agreeance on this issue.  Are you calling all these people from various parts of NZ ignorant?  I am very open minded, as I am sure the scientific and beekeeping community of NZ would attest to.  I am sure there are a great number of people who watch this forum are equally open minded. 

 

all I did was point out an alternative method to treat a heavily infested hive, that has been proven to work very well in different regions including here. I also pointed out some of the underlying principles as to why it works and hinted at the fact that feral bees have a very similar behavior in similar circumstances.

 

all you did was state 2 true but irrelevant and VERY generic facts and that it would not work... yes that is very ignorant behavior. 

 

also no need to hide behind politics, any nz beekeeping community (is there such a thing?) or a british comedy show 🙂

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1 minute ago, Christi An said:

.. yes that is very ignorant behavior. 

This is a very interesting thread .

 

However, we need to keep that type of comment out of the discussion please. It is not positive or productive 

 

Thank you 😊 

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9 minutes ago, Christi An said:

very ignorant behavior. 

 

also no need to hide behind politics, any nz beekeeping community (is there such a thing?) or a british comedy show 🙂

I would call your behaviour judgmental and narrow minded.

 

What qualifies you, or what experience do have you, to state that there is not such thing as a NZ beekeeping community?

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A hive with a high mite load is unlikely to produce very much surplus honey. I’d do an afb check, remove the honey boxes to another, stronger hive to finish off and then treat this one. Close the entrance down so it’s not robbed out,  spreading the varroa to all your other hives. 

Have you done a sugar shake on the other hives too?? As some else said, here’s a good chance they have high mite numbers too. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

One suggestion is to clear the bees from the supers and them put them on another hive for safe-keeping. Then you can treat with colony without worrying about contaminating the honey. Is there mite resistance to Bayvarol yet in NZ? It was one of the treatments of choice in the UK (along with Apistan)  for a while until resistance built up - the reisitance wasn't really noticed until winter losses started to increase and people figured out why.. Thymol based treatments are used in the UK, and MAQS is also used for a quick (1 week) treatment as it penetrates the brood cappings if it's available in NZ.

 

If a colony has a high mite load and there are deformed wings, it's possible that there is a lot of dead or duff pupae in the brood area that the colony is trying to look after (a rather pointless task and a waste of time of course). Look for bees that have died as they have tried to get out of the cells. If the numbers of bees is falling, once it's been treated for varroa, it might need a frame of (varroa free) brood to help it get going again. Once the varroa has gone, it takes, I understand, a couple of brood cycles for the colony to rid itself of the viruses associated with varroa, so it's a long-haul to get the colony back to strength.

Edited by AdamD
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