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Tough times ahead

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2 hours ago, okthen said:

Nz  clover honey $7.50 , 500 grams

on aussie supermarket shelves .

Pure deliciousness.  Given up trying to find a nice floral tasting aussie honey. 

It's like chewing gum leaves. Hats off  to the nz beeks that got there product onto the supermarket shelves. 

 

 

Do you think even their manuka tastes like gum ?

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2 hours ago, Maggie James said:

 

I think the people that came on in the boom could face trouble, particularly if they have major debt.  Those prior to the boom have had a chance to diversify.  Varroa was an example of forcing beekeepers to diversity to create alternative income and cut costs, and some of these people who diversified within the industry then will be fine, as those who have a mortgage free roof over their heads.    Maybe we will see, once again, boutique honeys appearing e.g. a friend has a really good crop of fuchsia!  These boutique honeys seemed to have disappeared over the last few years. 

 

The other thing is that the "boom" or growth has also come from new capital / equity.

In the initial years of a new business making losses is not unusual, and more capital is used to keep the business going.

But now, no one is going to be wanting to be putting fresh capital into the business, the business is going to need to at 

least break-even, and if there is little prospect of it getting there, then shutting down or selling down assets is what is left.

And particularly as you mention where these new businesses have probably not had a chance to diversify their income streams.

 

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3 hours ago, okthen said:

Nz  clover honey $7.50 , 500 grams

on aussie supermarket shelves .

Pure deliciousness.  Given up trying to find a nice floral tasting aussie honey. 

It's like chewing gum leaves. Hats off  to the nz beeks that got there product onto the supermarket shelves. 

 

 

Just try Yellow Box honey from Euc melliodora

 

https://www.honeytraveler.com/single-flower-honey/yellow-box-honey/

 

Very good honey, much more complex than NZ clover.

 

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11 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I think the reality is the tough times are here to stay for more than a few years.

If you produce mono Manuka you will be better off than those that aren’t but even mono is not sold as easily or for as much as before the standard came out.

 

Many people came into the industry during the boom when any kind of honey was worth good money. Now that honey is unsaleable or if desperate you might be lucky to get someone to buy it for a few dollars a kilo.

 

Theres three options

find mono Manuka sites, 
try and sell hives and gear and get another job 

hold on and hope for $8kg honey sometime in the future or go broke trying.

 

i don’t see option 3 as viable because I don’t see 8kg for Bush honey even monofloral Bush honeys anytime in the near future.

 

I always feel like a negative Nancy when I post like this but I just can’t see any kind of future for anyone producing non Manuka 

 

Morning Negative Nancy....

I really only see one option for going forward .... an advertising blitz to highlight the problem and get people to buy local... honey puffs for breakie, honey sammy for lunch.... mead in the evening....

The health food of champions.... and we we all want to be champions ... right?

Crowd funding page for the industry to get rolling.....

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So I'm thinking crunch time is upon me ####load of hives bit of honey coming in good quality clover , poss 5-7$ kg? 3.50-5$?

If wanted at all?

 

3.5 -5  game over

6-7  might have a chance

Not wanted - game over...

 

4th generation beekeeper 

 

I thought to myself over 100 years in the family game and it might end with me?

Tough times ahead?

Tough times now....

I'm with @jamesc the problem needs advertising must be going to get serious very soon ? 

I'm a proactive beekeeper queens,nucs,pollen,honey,venom, proplas ,pollination but the structure of company relies heavily on a sold honey crop .

 

Keep thinking this could be the never ending nightmare.🤔

 

 

 

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@Nuc_man
The general.public has no idea how bad the situation is for a lot of commercial beeks without pollination contracts .

They are still caught up in the licence to print money  for manuka , all beeks are rich , media stuff from.a couple of yrs ago .

I expain the situation to my friends , they are largely unaware of whats going on ..

 

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32 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

@Nuc_man
The general.public has no idea how bad the situation is for a lot of commercial beeks without pollination contracts .

They are still caught up in the licence to print money  for manuka , all beeks are rich , media stuff from.a couple of yrs ago .

I expain the situation to my friends , they are largely unaware of whats going on ..

 

Yep sick of hearing tighten the belt have done that can't breath some weeks.

 

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20 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

Yep sick of hearing tighten the belt have done that can't breath some weeks.

 

The black currant growers may have gone through something similar after the ribena incident .

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7 hours ago, Nuc_man said:

Yep sick of hearing tighten the belt have done that can't breath some weeks.

 

There is only one option Mr Nucman....we all gotta grow into a bigger set of pants.

I’m over tightening the belt!

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8 hours ago, kaihoka said:

@Nuc_man
The general.public has no idea how bad the situation is for a lot of commercial beeks without pollination contracts .

They are still caught up in the licence to print money  for manuka , all beeks are rich , media stuff from.a couple of yrs ago .

I expain the situation to my friends , they are largely unaware of whats going on ..

 

We on this forum don't hear about Manuka sales. We discuss bush/pasture. Maybe the mono M beeks are still getting solid prices or maybe not... 

9 hours ago, Nuc_man said:

So I'm thinking crunch time is upon me ####load of hives bit of honey coming in good quality clover , poss 5-7$ kg? 3.50-5$?

If wanted at all?

 

3.5 -5  game over

6-7  might have a chance

Not wanted - game over...

 

4th generation beekeeper 

 

I thought to myself over 100 years in the family game and it might end with me?

Tough times ahead?

Tough times now....

I'm with @jamesc the problem needs advertising must be going to get serious very soon ? 

I'm a proactive beekeeper queens,nucs,pollen,honey,venom, proplas ,pollination but the structure of company relies heavily on a sold honey crop .

 

Keep thinking this could be the never ending nightmare.🤔

 

 

 

Have you considered approaching the local paper? It's a start. Get community support. Sometimes the local info goes national. Get @jamesc and a few others involved. 

Did you sell a lot of hives/nucs over the years? Was that a larger part of revenue 

What prices did you sell your crop for previously? Was it over 6-7? 

If you get 6-7 how might your business move forward? 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

We on this forum don't hear about Manuka sales. We discuss bush/pasture. Maybe the mono M beeks are still getting solid prices

You can be certain of that.

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33 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

We on this forum don't hear about Manuka sales. We discuss bush/pasture. Maybe the mono M beeks are still getting solid prices or maybe not..


we got a little bit of mono last season. Had more non Manuka and multi than mono though. 
none of our mono had a high NPA it was mostly only just a 5 or in the 4’s

We eventually sold all our honey but it took a lot of phone calls and talking to a lot of different people we had never sold honey to in the past.

None of our regular buyers were interested in any of it.

 

The Manuka market has changed there’s no longer the clamour to buy honey and we feel very fortunate we were able to sell.

prices ranged from $5kg for our non Manuka up to $24 for a our best honey with most of it selling in the $12-$18 range.

 

We should be discussing prices we have been able to get because I know some beekeepers are getting ripped off right now.

There is also a lot of mono sitting in sheds unsold both very high NPA mono and low NPA.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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We sold our pasture at 4.50. also lots of calls and all sold to a new buyer for us, which we hope will continue. 

It's a low price, though we can take it as our income is mainly pollination. 

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

$24 for a our best honey

Was that manuka .

Is there any money in any other honey.?

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3 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

We on this forum don't hear about Manuka sales. We discuss bush/pasture. Maybe the mono M beeks are still getting solid prices or maybe not... 

Have you considered approaching the local paper? It's a start. Get community support. Sometimes the local info goes national. Get @jamesc and a few others involved. 

Did you sell a lot of hives/nucs over the years? Was that a larger part of revenue 

What prices did you sell your crop for previously? Was it over 6-7? 

If you get 6-7 how might your business move forward? 

 

 

# 6 or 7 per kg would be sustainable maybe shy away from growth ...sustainable would suit me to the ground I dont need to be rich just cover wages and associated beekeeping costs is all I ask for.

Even in the hay days of the past few years as a non manuka producer the money went back into bees to keep up with regulations rmp...

On the bright side the sun is shinning today...lol

3 hours ago, jamesc said:

There is only one option Mr Nucman....we all gotta grow into a bigger set of pants.

I’m over tightening the belt!

Still working off the xmas belly .

I looking around every corner under every rock trying to find bigger pants.

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6 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

There is also a lot of mono sitting in sheds unsold both very high NPA mono and low NPA.

 

I've been looking for very high NPA mono recently, but for all the mountain sitting in sheds, they still want $160-180/kg or it'll keep sitting in their sheds...

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15 minutes ago, Rob's BP said:

 

I've been looking for very high NPA mono recently, but for all the mountain sitting in sheds, they still want $160-180/kg or it'll keep sitting in their sheds...

 

What do you think then is a market price then for NPA20, C4 pass, strong on the MPI's then Rob?

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2 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

What do you think then is a market price then for NPA20, C4 pass, strong on the MPI's then Rob?

 

Customer is currently paying $52 for UMF 22 250g packed and compliant with export & import requirements.

Currently sharing a brand with the importer, and having channel price conflict.

So wants exclusivity for their country.

Interested to hear from anyone who can/is motivated enough to match that.

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2 minutes ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Customer is currently paying $52 for UMF 22 250g packed and compliant with export & import requirements.

Currently sharing a brand with the importer, and having channel price conflict.

So wants exclusivity for their country.

Interested to hear from anyone who can/is motivated enough to match that.

 

Well good luck to them I guess at that price.

So to answer my own question I think it is around $110-$120/kg.

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3 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

Well good luck to them I guess at that price.

 

Yes, so one company, at least, is happy to supply at that price. 

The question is are they the only one?

Or are there others, as much of this thread indicates, who are sitting on mountains of honey, but not willing to sell for what is effectively >$200/kg wholesale

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As far as I can see manuka is still  getting a pretty high premium but there is definitely not the clamour for manuka like there was and prices at the very least have stabilised and are certainly not increasing.

Round here manuka is a nice table honey but never highly active  like Northland or East Cape but you still have to pay a lot to be on a farm and couple that with overstocking causing pathetic crops and there is not much margin in it. On top of all that most of the manuka in this area anyway is in the mountains where the weather is unreliable and if you get a crop two years out of three you are doing well. Up till a few years ago we had an exceptional run and a lot of new beekeepers thought it was the norm.

New Zealand's average production is now just over 20 kg a hive which is pathetic and an embarrassment. Most of us would be better off moving to England where you can get better crops and good prices for local honey without the overcrowding (until we get there).

As far as Clover goes I think I can survive on five dollars but I won't be getting a new truck anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Yes, so one company, at least, is happy to supply at that price. 

The question is are they the only one?

Or are there others, as much of this thread indicates, who are sitting on mountains of honey, but not willing to sell for what is effectively >$200/kg wholesale

 

I think I mis-understood, I thought you meant $52/kg, but if it is $52 per 250g jar packed, then that's got to be a go for the seller.  Is it UMF honey?

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46 minutes ago, john berry said:

Up till a few years ago we had an exceptional run and a lot of new beekeepers thought it was the norm.

Its a fantastic manuka yr here .

I was in a part of my place with a pure manuka stand and it was like being near a bee hive and I could see the flowers full of bees .

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2 hours ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Yes, so one company, at least, is happy to supply at that price. 

The question is are they the only one?

Or are there others, as much of this thread indicates, who are sitting on mountains of honey, but not willing to sell for what is effectively >$200/kg wholesale

Hey Rob, bit confused. So umf 15-20 mono is worth about? In the drum. 

I hear demand for UMF mono 5 odd. 

 

Is the Australian fires going to help sell Manuka here? 

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