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International Honey Prices

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45 minutes ago, Philbee said:

one day we may need to really push the production envelope

Personally I think this to be far more likely if bees produced usable amounts of protein. Sugar/carbs are everywhere.

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14 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

Personally I think this to be far more likely if bees produced usable amounts of protein. Sugar/carbs are everywhere.

Bees jobs may be far more focused toward pollination in the future 

 

Edited by Philbee

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1 minute ago, Philbee said:

Do you mean there is a pollen shortage?

 

No I mean IMO protein will become a far more valuable commodity in future than any form of sugar. Hence no demand to require pushing a production envelope.

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15 minutes ago, yesbut said:

No I mean IMO protein will become a far more valuable commodity in future than any form of sugar. Hence no demand to require pushing a production envelope.

Interesting, 
I edited that post once I realized your point.
Production in the future may well be related to possibly Manuka and large scale pollination of both clover and fruit / vege produce, with other honeys being minor players.

If this plays out then we may need lots of Hives again


 

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If NZ isn’t able to secure a trademark on the word Manuka we won’t have much of a market to worry about.

There are countries planting Manuka to harvest Manuka honey and of course there’s Australia already labelling all Leptospermum species as Manuka and cutting the price dramatically offshore to get shelf space.

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2 hours ago, Philbee said:

Interesting, 
I edited that post once I realized your point.
Production in the future may well be related to possibly Manuka and large scale pollination of both clover and fruit / vege produce, with other honeys being minor players.

If this plays out then we may need lots of Hives again


 

Certainly there are signs of major horticultural entities looking to partner with reliable beekeepers for the pollination of clover and other vegetables.  Discussions recently have suggested that farmers diversifying are more inclined to enter long term relationships to get their commodities pollinated and have evicted the short term Manuka chasers  who are never there when the pollination is required.

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We were asked to do some clover pollination the other day .....it always amuses me when Cockies ring up  just as their crop is flowering and say " The Rep tells me I need bees, can you put some in".

I am afraid we declined.I did'nt like the smell of the Uranium on the property.

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How much would you charge him?

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11 hours ago, yesbut said:

No I mean IMO protein will become a far more valuable commodity in future than any form of sugar. Hence no demand to require pushing a production envelope.

A lot of protein producing plants do not require insect pollinators .

But they do require clear skies to ripen the seeds so a warm cloudy C02 atmosphere is no good .

We will end up getting our protein  direct from from animals afterall  .

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8 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

A lot of protein producing plants do not require insect pollinators .

But they do require clear skies to ripen the seeds so a warm cloudy C02 atmosphere is no good .

We will end up getting our protein  direct from from animals afterall  .

Im a meat eater but do despair at the obvious slow but sure shift away from this protein source.

As the world begins to require more food for less input etc the basic efficiencies of production will begin to dictate what we eat.
Meat is incredibly inefficient to produce, so much energy is lost in heat production as well as all the other real or perceived negative associated issues.

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In Auck at least, there is a growing problem of protein malnutrition, as people make extreme changes in their diets to vegetarian or vegan. Worryingly, many of the victims are children, and nothing limits their development - particularly mental like a lack of sufficient protein. Many long term educated vegetarians have the balance right, and have no problems, but those who just delete all meat without realising the sheer volume of pulses and the like they then need to consume to stay healthy are suddenly unwell enough to go to the doctor, and are tested, leaving the medical profession are left trying to educate these people as to what changes need to be made.

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22 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

In Auck at least, there is a growing problem of protein malnutrition, as people make extreme changes in their diets to vegetarian or vegan. Worryingly, many of the victims are children, and nothing limits their development - particularly mental like a lack of sufficient protein. Many long term educated vegetarians have the balance right, and have no problems, but those who just delete all meat without realising the sheer volume of pulses and the like they then need to consume to stay healthy are suddenly unwell enough to go to the doctor, and are tested, leaving the medical profession are left trying to educate these people as to what changes need to be made.

Yes,
Im not an advocate of this shift, however IMO events will dictate and sacrifices will need to be made.
One solution might be to stifle global growth, 

Arguably that move is underway already.

One frightening consequence  of stifling Global growth is a situation where one nations growth can only occur at the expense of another.

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19 hours ago, Philbee said:

Its critical that NZ works out how overstocking affects production.
It's either due to competition for forage, ill health as an effect of overstocking or a combination of both.
In my view it probably isnt due solely to competition for forage.

The facts of the matter are really important because one day we may need to really push the production envelope and if the limiting factor is forage then that is an absolute, whereas if the limiting factor is Bee health then Science may be able to intervene.

The production part  - this sort of comes back around to the idea of a hive numbers per region type quota which was bandied around a while ago as a way of limiting hives:forage availability.  No amount of squinting could make me see how that could be made to work without offering to bail out some "businesses" (incentivise them to exit) to reduce the pressure.   Of course, that would have to come from open accounts and proof that they were running a sustainable business prior, so I think, it won't fly.   

Bee health - challenged by some general incompetence in the actual management of bees as a livestock type, you mean? 

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1 hour ago, Chrisdub said:

The production part  - this sort of comes back around to the idea of a hive numbers per region type quota which was bandied around a while ago as a way of limiting hives:forage availability.  No amount of squinting could make me see how that could be made to work without offering to bail out some "businesses" (incentivise them to exit) to reduce the pressure.   Of course, that would have to come from open accounts and proof that they were running a sustainable business prior, so I think, it won't fly.   

Bee health - challenged by some general incompetence in the actual management of bees as a livestock type, you mean? 

Bee health is not solely a competence issue any more than ill health in the community is a medical practitioner's failure.

As for squinting, no amount of it will cleanse your Hives of the Nosema twins and their Cohort of nasties.

 

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3 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Bee health is not solely a competence issue any more than ill health in the community is a medical practitioner's failure.

As for squinting, no amount of it will cleanse your Hives of the Nosema twins and their Cohort of nasties.

 

The squint is for the understandings of how to make anything work without an iron fist approach perhaps.

And I agree re the overall health comment. However, if several medical practitioners were in one locale and the general health of the populus was thus, one might have to question it a little. 🤔

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2 hours ago, Chrisdub said:

The squint is for the understandings of how to make anything work without an iron fist approach perhaps.

And I agree re the overall health comment. However, if several medical practitioners were in one locale and the general health of the populus was thus, one might have to question it a little. 🤔

lol

Yes I here you

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13 hours ago, Bighands said:

How much would you charge him?

The cocky wanted them for free ..... but I guess the charge is the same as for all the other small seed pollination ...... $190/hive.

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28 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The cocky wanted them for free ..... but I guess the charge is the same as for all the other small seed pollination ...... $190/hive.

This is going to be a monumental shift in farming thinking.

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 5:07 PM, ChrisM said:

if the US is a 275,000 tonne market with 330 Million people, that is roughly speaking about 833 tonnes per million people per year.

The MPI NZ apiculture report 2018 says we produced 20,000 tonne and exported 9,000 tonne.

So, that makes the NZ domestic market about 11,000 tonne divided by 5 Million people, that is roughly 2200 tonnes per million people.

or 2.2kg per person.

 

Hi Chris, anyone reading the data needs to also calculate the amount of NZ honey moved offshore by non official exports i.e. daigou trade and handcarried by tourists. 

My experience and what I've seen is that the non official exports are far more volume than what is sold and consumed in NZ. 

Therefore NZ consumption is much less than 2.2kg per person.

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Daigou......my word of the day !

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7 hours ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Hi Chris, anyone reading the data needs to also calculate the amount of NZ honey moved offshore by non official exports i.e. daigou trade and handcarried by tourists. 

My experience and what I've seen is that the non official exports are far more volume than what is sold and consumed in NZ. 

Therefore NZ consumption is much less than 2.2kg per person.

so, kind of like NZ Post's YouShop but in reverse. Wow, learnt something new and it makes sense. Overall tourism numbers are around 4 Million per year if Google is to be trusted. If we consume only 0.83kg per person that is 1.4kg more than local sales exported than eaten. If the average is to work out then some people must be taking 5 or 10kg back home with them (?). If the domestic market is more than half exported then there is hope in expanding "domestic" sales afterall. I think I am right in saying that tourist numbers are steadily increasing. It is possible then that some people are paying a lot of money for RMP  with twice yearly audits, paying to export and paying to ship and sell for not a lot, whereas others are exporting-locally 7000 tonne and only need NP1 and can sell at retail prices. Would it be fair to say that Bay of Plenty Beekeepers could band together to offer honey tasting tours and bring in 30 to 50 tourists a time on a bus for a tasting tour of 6 different beekeepers during the day and a picnic hamper? If you had a cafe at the shed (NP3?) and were within 15 min's drive of Port of Tauranga... Afterall, this is what the wine people do isn't it? I think there is a ship coming into the Mount nearly every day at this time of year. Not everyone wants to go to Hobbiton. Most beekeeping sheds would provide a 'very authentic' experience; for want of a better phrase.. Completely separate to this, I did once wonder about the economics of having some hives to show people, separately, we did at one stage assist Comvita Experience with their display hive. I'm no tourism expert, but if wildlife zoos can do it with crocodiles, snakes and lions, then orange and black Jalapeno flies should be easy. If beekeepers can sell equivalent of a drum of honey per day that's worth some effort. Most of the tourists seem to go around in mini-vans. Does anyone know how that all works, I imagine there are all kinds of secret commissions and quid-pro-quo? Probably take 12 months to get organised with glossy brochures for next season, but it can't hurt can it? pay $40 for a half-day mini-bus tour, pay to order a hamper in advance, honey tasting free, with apiary door sales available direct from the beekeepers. $50 for a live bee display after lunch if you want to have the whole day tour with some adventure tourism. 

 

I forgot to add something about Bruce Clow's co-op. This could be something that is compatible with a co-op.

 

 

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
double up.

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Yes, cruise ship visitors.... I reckon considerable Mark up on an activity when passengers organise via cruise company. 

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Done some contracting to inbound tour operators, and you would be shocked at what people pay for the very few listed activities they are offered. Also remember that those aboard cruise ships do not have a weight restriction. Other honey is exported by small operators with Mandarin and Korean as first languages who are able to advertise on international sites equal to fb etc and sell direct to those who want to be certain that they are getting what they ordered, and it would be near impossible for MPI with mainly English speaking staff to get a handle on the whole trade, so tax and gst free.

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On 16/12/2019 at 1:43 PM, ChrisM said:

 

so, kind of like NZ Post's YouShop but in reverse. Wow, learnt something new and it makes sense. Overall tourism numbers are around 4 Million per year if Google is to be trusted. If we consume only 0.83kg per person that is 1.4kg more than local sales exported than eaten. If the average is to work out then some people must be taking 5 or 10kg back home with them (?). If the domestic market is more than half exported then there is hope in expanding "domestic" sales afterall. I think I am right in saying that tourist numbers are steadily increasing. It is possible then that some people are paying a lot of money for RMP  with twice yearly audits, paying to export and paying to ship and sell for not a lot, whereas others are exporting-locally 7000 tonne and only need NP1 and can sell at retail prices. Would it be fair to say that Bay of Plenty Beekeepers could band together to offer honey tasting tours and bring in 30 to 50 tourists a time on a bus for a tasting tour of 6 different beekeepers during the day and a picnic hamper? If you had a cafe at the shed (NP3?) and were within 15 min's drive of Port of Tauranga... Afterall, this is what the wine people do isn't it? I think there is a ship coming into the Mount nearly every day at this time of year. Not everyone wants to go to Hobbiton. Most beekeeping sheds would provide a 'very authentic' experience; for want of a better phrase.. Completely separate to this, I did once wonder about the economics of having some hives to show people, separately, we did at one stage assist Comvita Experience with their display hive. I'm no tourism expert, but if wildlife zoos can do it with crocodiles, snakes and lions, then orange and black Jalapeno flies should be easy. If beekeepers can sell equivalent of a drum of honey per day that's worth some effort. Most of the tourists seem to go around in mini-vans. Does anyone know how that all works, I imagine there are all kinds of secret commissions and quid-pro-quo? Probably take 12 months to get organised with glossy brochures for next season, but it can't hurt can it? pay $40 for a half-day mini-bus tour, pay to order a hamper in advance, honey tasting free, with apiary door sales available direct from the beekeepers. $50 for a live bee display after lunch if you want to have the whole day tour with some adventure tourism. 

 

I forgot to add something about Bruce Clow's co-op. This could be something that is compatible with a co-op.

 

 

We offer bee tours for  $75 per head. Seems like a lot but I only take up to 4 at a time so they get a good chance to see in the hives and tours are tailored to their interests. 

We had a tour company ask us if we could take 20 at a time but declined. Too many bee suits to wash for starters. 

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1 hour ago, nikki watts said:

We offer bee tours for  $75 per head. Seems like a lot but I only take up to 4 at a time so they get a good chance to see in the hives and tours are tailored to their interests. 

We had a tour company ask us if we could take 20 at a time but declined. Too many bee suits to wash for starters. 

Hope you're registered as an adventure tour operator

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