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Nuc_man

Advocate airborne take on honey situation

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3 minutes ago, Ted said:

I guess my point was they talk about integrity and honesty but then go and pay $18 kg for 100% Kanuka (a couple of years ago) so at that price it is definitely being sold as Manuka.

 

Before UMF MGO or MPI standard manuka and kanuka where always sold as manuka, there was no distinction between the two. 

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5 minutes ago, Ted said:

I guess my point was they talk about integrity and honesty but then go and pay $18 kg for 100% Kanuka (a couple of years ago) so at that price it is definitely being sold as Manuka.

 

Yup you hit the nail on the head.  

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1 hour ago, Big Jim said:

Not sure how anyone can give their customers confidence that they are buying genuine Manuka Honey by giving them a pollen count on the jar,

How many years can the consumer be mislead about pollen counts on Manuka/Kanuks before they finaly give up and find something else to buy.......................

if it has manuka pollen in it then it's likely the bees actually went near a manuka bush. Unlike some of the honey being sold as manuka under the old approach of blend anything approaching bush honey and if in doubt stir in some chemistry

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1 minute ago, tommy dave said:

if it has manuka pollen in it then it's likely the bees actually went near a manuka bush. Unlike some of the honey being sold as manuka under the old approach of blend anything approaching bush honey and if in doubt stir in some chemistry

Isn't really hard to see the difference between Ka and Ma pollen? Hence the use of pollen counts. 

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19 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Before UMF MGO or MPI standard manuka and kanuka where always sold as manuka, there was no distinction between the two. 

Yes but that was when no one wanted it anyway nor did they have the ability to identify varieties by pollen content.  My point is they are promoting grading monofloral honey by pollen content yet obviously don’t take the same approach with Kanuka.

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47 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Before UMF MGO or MPI standard manuka and kanuka where always sold as manuka, there was no distinction between the two. 

 

Yes. As a young guy I did 2 years in the far north, in manuka country, at that time as much as it was possible we kept the hives away from manuka as it was hard to extract and didn't meet the taste requirements for most people.

 

But what we got, manuka and kanuka were just bundled up and sold as manuka. I don't recall ever seeing a pot of honey on a supermarket shelf labelled as kanuka, I think there would now be a good case to do it though in fact I am considering producing my own brand.

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Does anybody know when will this $3/kg air on Country Calendar?

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 manuka, white manuka, kanuka ,kahikatoa, Red tea tree were all names used for both manuka and kanuka. They are closely related and have been known to naturally hybridise. The two honeys are very similar and certainly in this area almost always come in at the same time or at least overlap. They were always sold together as manuka and this was not to try and rip people off, it was just the way it was. There is more difference between Hawke's Bay and Northland manuka as far as taste goes than there is between Hawke's Bay manuka and kanuka. I have never had a problem with  the two being mixed together and up until recently was impossible to tell them apart anyway. It's ridiculous that good manuka honey with a high UMF and a little bit of kanuka  doesn't even make manuka multi floral and yet if you mix enough clover with it becomes manuka multi floral. The current standards are plain wrong and I believe should be challenged. The problem with adulterated manuka did not come from beekeepers who have always packed manuka\kanuka together. The problem came with people who mixed everything else in with their manuka\kanuka honey.

If you want a high UMF honey then you're going to need some reasonably straight manuka from the right area(or some suntan lotion) but if you just want a nice pot of reasonably priced table manuka with arguably a better flavour then Hawke's Bay manuka\kanuka every time.

I wonder if those areas that traditionally called manuka- kahikatoa or kanuka will be selling their honey under those names.

I keep feeling like blaming MPI for this debacle but beekeepers had years to get their house in order and didn't so it's no surprise that we got something imposed on us and being that it was done by government no surprise they got it wrong.

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5 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Before UMF MGO or MPI standard manuka and kanuka where always sold as manuka, there was no distinction between the two. 

But they taste really different .

I was given a couple of pure manuka ,umf 15, the other day .

It is very dark and strong .

Kanuka is much milder .

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22 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

But they taste really different .

I was given a couple of pure manuka ,umf 15, the other day .

It is very dark and strong .

Kanuka is much milder .


pure Manuka using which standard ?

i don’t think you can draw a conclusion regarding taste on one jar of honey.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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4 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:


pure Manuka using which standard ?

i don’t think you can draw a conclusion regarding taste on one jar of hone

 

It was a strict export standard .

I was surprised how dark and strong it was .

I never get anything like that in my hives .

I have lots of kanuka  around my place ., maybe the bees never collect it .

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You raise an interesting point Kaihoka. The manuka honey we produced when I worked in the far north (probably should add in 1970's) was a strong dark honey, it had an almost smokey taste and a slight bitterness. Manuka produced where i am now has a milder flavour, and some supermarket bought manukas I tried a couple years ago didn't even taste like manuka at all. (Think i know why). The local kanuka produced by my own hives is a really delicious honey when freshly harvested, but loses it's flavour after a few months in storage to become a more run of the mill "bush" honey.

Best i can tell, kanuka has always been sold mixed in with manuka, if it was extracted at the same time, up until the new standard. And after the standard, i know of a mix that was 90% kanuka passed the standard and was exported as manuka. Happy to disclose the packer by PM if anyone wants to know.

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15 hours ago, Nuc_man said:

Burning off fast east coast south island

Anyone for Radish?

9C15897A-083D-4183-9DF5-01730A072664.jpeg

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Not sure he would want to disclose, by his comments, who he is. 😉

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8 hours ago, Alastair said:

You raise an interesting point Kaihoka. The manuka honey we produced when I worked in the far north (probably should add in 1970's) was a strong dark honey, it had an almost smokey taste and a slight bitterness. Manuka produced where i am now has a milder flavour, and some supermarket bought manukas I tried a couple years ago didn't even taste like manuka at all. (Think i know why). The local kanuka produced by my own hives is a really delicious honey when freshly harvested, but loses it's flavour after a few months in storage to become a more run of the mill "bush" honey.

Best i can tell, kanuka has always been sold mixed in with manuka, if it was extracted at the same time, up until the new standard. And after the standard, i know of a mix that was 90% kanuka passed the standard and was exported as manuka. Happy to disclose the packer by PM if anyone wants to know.

in golden bay 80% kanuka to manuka.

i think 30 yrs ago there was lots more manuka.

the place had  lots of cleared damaged abandoned neglected farms when i came 40yrs ago.

an awful lot of it has now reverted to bush and gone through the manuka stage.

manuka is now only on the really sour infertile soils.

Edited by kaihoka
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Yes that's interesting Kaihoka. My own belief is that in pre human NZ manuka may have been less common than it is now. 

 

After land was cleared, or burned as in the far north, it opened the way for manuka.

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On barrier the kanuka will outgrow and shade the Manuka at 30-40 years. Farmland abandoned in the 60’s/70’s is now becoming mostly Kanuka unless it’s swamp or windswept hillsides. 

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3 hours ago, nikki watts said:

On barrier the kanuka will outgrow and shade the Manuka at 30-40 years. Farmland abandoned in the 60’s/70’s is now becoming mostly Kanuka unless it’s swamp or windswept hillsides. 

The same as here .

So all these manuka plantings will have a limited lifespan .

The young small manuka is the most reliable flowerer here .

Is it the same other places ?

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14 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

The same as here .

So all these manuka plantings will have a limited lifespan .

The young small manuka is the most reliable flowerer here .

Is it the same other places ?

Perhaps it will need "farming" like everything else - or at least some form of management to ensure it is kept producing and the senescent manuka is replaced by new seedlings, if it doesn't propagate itself adequately. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Chrisdub said:

Perhaps it will need "farming" like everything else - or at least some form of management to ensure it is kept producing and the senescent manuka is replaced by new seedlings, if it doesn't propagate itself adequately. 

 

That's why it's often planted in rows, so it can be manicured to keep it youthfull

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

The same as here .

So all these manuka plantings will have a limited lifespan .

The young small manuka is the most reliable flowerer here .

Is it the same other places ?

Yes the smaller plants are more reliable but they also flower earlier then the big trees so it’s not always warm enough for the flowers to secrete nectar. 

We have a friend who trims our mid size Manuka trees after they finish flowering to make manuka hydrosol and oil. 

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2 hours ago, Chrisdub said:

Perhaps it will need "farming" like everything else - or at least some form of management to ensure it is kept producing and the senescent manuka is replaced by new seedlings, if it doesn't propagate itself adequately. 

 

It seeds and geminates freely enough .

It just seems to not flower so well when mature here .

Prunning may help .

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18 hours ago, kaihoka said:

It was a strict export standard .

you're forgetting that nobody really believes that meeting the export standard means that the predominant floral source for the nectar is manuka. Not even MPI - they describe it quite carefully in that sense...

17 hours ago, Alastair said:

Happy to disclose the packer by PM if anyone wants to know.

almost worth donating to get access to PMs/ unrelated - on a forum i used to moderate (still a mod, but no longer really active) there was a lot of jest about the use of PMS vs PMs given what the acronym stands for ;)

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