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Don Mac

Neonicotinoid Study Published

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Biggest problem in trying to delete the coating of the seeds is Monsanto (now Bayer) own shares in all the major seed producers, and they are not about to give up that large section of their sales anytime soon.

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2 hours ago, Sailabee said:

Biggest problem in trying to delete the coating of the seeds is Monsanto (now Bayer) own shares in all the major seed producers, and they are not about to give up that large section of their sales anytime soon.

unless being forced to. which they should

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And if the insecticides, herbicides and fungacides are removed for the bees health what are the options for pretty much the guaranteed food supply for you and me . I used to be a market gardener now have a few bees and mixed crop farm. I see crops get blown over all the time if bugs n diseases arent dealt to. So should the $$ go to finding a alternative to the chemicals in main stream use or into the blame game. I see a lot of belts getting let off a hole or 2  and that comes from the luxury of plenty of food so becareful not to shoot the hand that feeds you and work with it instead. Im all for alternative chemicals that benefit all but like all I cannot sacrafice my income either. 

Edited by Anne
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7 hours ago, Anne said:

So should the $$ go to finding a alternative to the chemicals in main stream use or into the blame game.

I know this can be a contentious issue, but having been in the organic sector for many years, my understanding is that pests and diseases diminish when the soil is treated properly, with composts and natural fertilisers that put into the soil what the crops being planted need. This creates healthy soil, healthy plants far less susceptible to pests and diseases, without the need for chemicals.
Yes it is more time intensive, but it should be seen as one of the solutions, and not just a fad as so many people think.
You don't need truckloads of chemicals to grow decent nutritious food, and the chemicals are just destroying what should be vital healthy soil. There are very few soil fauna in chemical laden soil. Such a shame.

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every time we get research into Neonics we seem to get the same answer that they may be causing problems. My own conclusions from doing pumpkin pollination are the same. There wasn't enough damage to the hives to prove conclusively to me that it was causing damage but those hives had higher losses and were below par for three years afterwards.

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it comes down to what produces more food.  wind pollination vs bee pollination. 

 

the answer is in the continued use of insecticides.   

 

also air-seeders are one of the biggest spreaders of the neo-nik dust 

1 hour ago, PhilEvans said:

I know this can be a contentious issue, but having been in the organic sector for many years, my understanding is that pests and diseases diminish when the soil is treated properly, with composts and natural fertilizers that put into the soil what the crops being planted need. This creates healthy soil, healthy plants far less susceptible to pests and diseases, without the need for chemicals.
Yes it is more time intensive, but it should be seen as one of the solutions, and not just a fad as so many people think.
You don't need truckloads of chemicals to grow decent nutritious food, and the chemicals are just destroying what should be vital healthy soil. There are very few soil fauna in chemical laden soil. Such a shame.

 Until it can compete financially with conventional cropping nothing will change.

Edited by nab
because
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8 hours ago, PhilEvans said:

Again, the big shame is that the word "conventional" is used for chemical laden food production, which is wrong. Organic production has been going on for millenia, and is conventional. Chemical production is just that, chemical, and really is the sop out lazy way to grow proper food.

 

Organic production can be far more financially viable, but it is the fact it is more labour intensive that puts people off. As I said, chemical production, which destroys so much of the environment, and so many necessary insects, is just lazy farming... If I upset anyone by saying this, I am not sorry, its just a fact

I agree with what you are saying.

its called conventional because food was always produced to feed people. organics use to work fine 100 years ago. the use of chemicals to control pest and diseases to increase yield only come with the increase of human population.    the big question is who gets to choose what half of the world starves.  

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6 minutes ago, nab said:

I agree with what you are saying.

its called conventional because food was always produced to feed people. organics use to work fine 100 years ago. the use of chemicals to control pest and diseases to increase yield only come with the increase of human population.    the big question is who gets to choose what half of the world starves.  

Food would have to become more expensive .

People may have spent a bigger percentage of their income on food once than they do now .

Food has been kept artificially cheap by fossil fuels and pollitical necessity

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12 hours ago, PhilEvans said:

just lazy farming

I was pondering how lazy I was being this morning , tuning up a little bit of black berry on the road side that persists every year . It used to be a jungle many years ago , climbing fences and trapping wildlife amongst its thorns .

 

I wondered if I wasn’t being lazy , and left it to grow , how many townies would notice it and organise a working bee to clean it up , along with all the KFC rubbish that gets hiffed out the window , then I realised they wouldn’t.

 

My mind wandered , then , onto organic beef . I could produce it , but it would cost . I’d need to pay a full time team to weed the roadside , and the drains .

 

Anyone free on the weekend ? 

Edited by M4tt
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Hey Matt I am south of you and our blackberry is flowering, hope your not spraying while its flowering man

 

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11 hours ago, M4tt said:

I was pondering how lazy I was being this morning , tuning up a little bit of black berry on the road side that persists every year . It used to be a jungle many years ago , climbing fences and trapping wildlife amongst its thorns .

 

I wondered if I wasn’t being lazy , and left it to grow , how many townies would notice it and organise a working bee to clean it up , along with all the KFC rubbish that gets hiffed out the window , then I realised they wouldn’t.

 

My mind wandered , then , onto organic beef . I could produce it , but it would cost . I’d need to pay a full time team to weed the roadside , and the drains .

 

Anyone free on the weekend ? 

I thought blackberry was a good nectar source for bees that produced a surplus .

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It is down here anyway

47 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

I thought blackberry was a good nectar source for bees that produced a surplus .

It is down here at times

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12 hours ago, M4tt said:

I wondered if I wasn’t being lazy , and left it to grow , how many townies would notice it and organise a working bee to clean it up , along with all the KFC rubbish that gets hiffed out the window , then I realised they wouldn’t.

you'd probably get someone complaining about pest plants/weeds, plenty of people throwing kfc rubbish out the window, and nobody helping...

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8 hours ago, olbe said:

Hey Matt I am south of you and our blackberry is flowering, hope your not spraying while its flowering man

 

It doesn’t get mature enough to flower , although it does on a block over from me . The birds move the seeds around 

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10 hours ago, Bighands said:

It is down here anyway

It is down here at times

Do you get a flow off it up there?

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1 minute ago, Bighands said:

Do you get a flow off it up there?

 No, there isn’t enough 

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3 hours ago, M4tt said:

It doesn’t get mature enough to flower , although it does on a block over from me . The birds move the seeds around 

I leave mine alone in certain areas now .

It never really gets away here , too much bush .

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Newshub (TV 3) featured Dr Chris Pook and Neil Mossop in a discussion on this very topic.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/12/maize-crop-chemicals-blamed-for-mass-north-island-bee-deaths.html

Since the publication of Dr Chris Pook and Iran Gitan's paper there has been another paper recently published in France which shows residues of imidacloprid in Canola feilds.
Wintermandel's study showed that imidacloprid residues was in the soil 5 years after they stopped using it at levels that showing a mortality risk to bees 5 years after last being used.     This French paper backs up the results of the NZ Study.

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2 hours ago, Don Mac said:

Hi Folks - here is a copy of the French paper that backs up the NZ study.

 

Thank you Jose for that link. Glad the news is spread.Wintermantel D et al 2019(IP) Neonicotinoid risk for bees in rape.pdf

Quote

A more likely mechanism of large-scale imidacloprid spread is
transport by water in leachate, run-off or contaminated irrigation
water (Bradford et al., 2018; Huseth and Groves, 2014;
Kurwadkar et al., 2014), which neonicotinoids are prone to as they
have to be water-soluble to be systemic (Bonmatin et al., 2015;
Giorio et al., 2017). This is supported by our finding that imidacloprid
prevalence and concentration increased with rainfall in the
days before sampling and was higher on red soil (i.e. unsaturated
brunisol on ferralitic clay) than on calcareous soil.

and what do bees need, water. if there is no plants for them to get dew or nectar off where do bees drink?

didn't one of the gizzy flats test show lethal amounts in the water on the edge of the fields ??

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I’m not surprised at all. We no longer have bees on the flats. I’d be curious as to what they use on the brassicas as well.

 

 The big question is what happens next?

Edited by Bron
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