Jump to content
frazzledfozzle

World honey prices

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

Drive around the BoP and boy there are a lot of new avo plantings, I hope for their sake that there will be a market for them as if supply goes up but demand doesn't, the price will only come down. 

Look what happened to honey!

Heaps of new massive avo orchards being put in up north too

Edited by Maru Hoani
Spelling error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ali said:

Your so right @Bighands that is exactly what is done in a big way. Pacific Island/Melanesian men for the picking and then the women folk for the pruning etc, not just Avo.

I know two couples in the north who make a great living helping to manage the crews, make sure they get to work and back each day etc etc, a bit better than slavery but has it's similarities.

From what I saw part of the art is making sure certain culture groups don't mix it up with other cultures as it can lead to real trouble. 

Seasonal labour but it gives an opportunity for the folk who come here to take something home with them that is far more than they would have staying home.

I think its great that these folk can come here and make money to take back to their communities to improve their lives.

But I am sick.of this kiwis are lazy s###t.

NZ had an aging population, all the young people who would have done this work 30 yrs ago are well and truly past it now .

The standard of housing for a cold climate like NZ has to be a lot more weather proof than where these folk come from .

They do not bring their families and may struggle to house them on the manual labour wages just like kiwi families do.

NZ  workers have a good reputation as hard workers overseas .

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, kaihoka said:

NZ  workers have a good reputation as hard workers overseas .

 

Perhaps the fact they've got up and out of here indicates they have above average ambition and motivation.

And there's often no welfare system for foreigners to fall back on.

Immigrants around the world tend to be hard working, making a new and better life for them  and their families. Hence the phrases "working like a Dutchman" and more recently heard "working like an Indian".

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the phrase was "working like a Trojan" but I've never met a Trojan.

Around the BoP I see lots of new Gold Kiwi plantings, but haven't noticed Avo to the same degree.

I've heard of 5 dairy farms around Edgecombe being combined and converted to Gold.

Something like $275k per hectare? But maybe I heard that wrong.

The Working Holidays Visa, is attracting a lot of young South American's too.

I'm sure the scheme can be expanded if that is what is decided.

The local Pak'n'Save sounds more like Buenos Aires than PahPahMore sometimes...

When I was young on my OE I worked like a Trojan too, it was fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

I thought the phrase was "working like a Trojan" but I've never met a Trojan.

Around the BoP I see lots of new Gold Kiwi plantings, but haven't noticed Avo to the same degree.

I've heard of 5 dairy farms around Edgecombe being combined and converted to Gold.

Something like $275k per hectare? But maybe I heard that wrong.

The Working Holidays Visa, is attracting a lot of young South American's too.

I'm sure the scheme can be expanded if that is what is decided.

The local Pak'n'Save sounds more like Buenos Aires than PahPahMore sometimes...

When I was young on my OE I worked like a Trojan too, it was fun!

275k a hectare is on the cheaper side. That's just the licence to grow, add in root stock, structure... expensive but the returns make it stack up. 

Around Katikati, lots of small orchard avo infill. Currently the avo return very average compared to the last few years. Also, avo orchards that were neglected coming back to production. Nice rain this afternoon with thunder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

275k a hectare is on the cheaper side. That's just the licence to grow, add in root stock, structure... expensive but the returns make it stack up. 

Around Katikati, lots of small orchard avo infill. Currently the avo return very average compared to the last few years. Also, avo orchards that were neglected coming back to production. Nice rain this afternoon with thunder

I heard the license to grow was $300k per hectare. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChrisM said:

I heard the license to grow was $300k per hectare. 

400k has been paid edit kiwifruit

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm ..... I remember back in the day when bee hives were trading for $1000 each ....... lets sit back and watch ..... and perhaps learn .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does all the money go from from those licenses to grow.

The whole thing seems like a monopoly and a long way from the ideals of a free market place..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To zespri. They hold patent. A G3 grower gets about 10-11$ a tray versus 6-7 regular. G3 produces more fruit and it's in world demand. Unique to N,Z, but under some risk of copy cat Chinese growers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zespri have a large, funded research program constantly breeding in an effort to improve/find new strains which is ongoing - one of the researchers spoke at a Treecrops meeting a couple of years ago, and showed the colours they were currently working on - including the new red ones. Once they have something they think will fly, they can then propagate up the numbers to have reasonable volume available when it hits the market. The licence system does to a certain extent protect them as even the Chinese would be harrassed if they managed to get their hands on the new variety and try growing them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

Zespri have a large, funded research program constantly breeding in an effort to improve/find new strains which is ongoing - one of the researchers spoke at a Treecrops meeting a couple of years ago, and showed the colours they were currently working on - including the new red ones. Once they have something they think will fly, they can then propagate up the numbers to have reasonable volume available when it hits the market. The licence system does to a certain extent protect them as even the Chinese would be harrassed if they managed to get their hands on the new variety and try growing them.

The Chinese are already growing 1000s hectare of protected G3. Bigger orchards than ours. Zespri is trying to stop them.... you can see why Donald is at logger heads.

It's currently not a problem, yet. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, john berry said:

Where does all the money go from from those licenses to grow.

The whole thing seems like a monopoly and a long way from the ideals of a free market place..

 

Good to see they have the money to fund their R&D, product development, and to protect it legally to stop competitors copying/ripping them off, selling for cheaper, devaluing the product and reputation...the parallels highlight the weaknesses in our industry

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Good to see they have the money to fund their R&D, product development, and to protect it legally to stop competitors copying/ripping them off, selling for cheaper, devaluing the product and reputation...the parallels highlight the weaknesses in our industry

Not quite correct.  They can control the the industry because they have a single marketing desk.   Until the honey industry goes back to the single sales desk none of the controls will happen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least if we went back to a single sales desk, which I think we will have to do, we will not cut each others throats competing in the same markets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I struggle with the ethics of charging members of your own co-op a huge fee to replace a disease prone variety that they have paid for the right to plant.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

The Chinese are already growing 1000s hectare of protected G3. Bigger orchards than ours. Zespri is trying to stop them.... you can see why Donald is at logger heads.

It's currently not a problem, yet. 

 

Why is it that the Chinese are able to come to NZ and eg insist upon six monthly RMP audits for processing facilities, yet have planted 1,000's of ha of G3 and seem to be getting away with it...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Why is it that the Chinese are able to come to NZ and eg insist upon six monthly RMP audits for processing facilities, yet have planted 1,000's of ha of G3 and seem to be getting away with it...

 

Because we are such a small player and they have all the power.

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Why is it that the Chinese are able to come to NZ and eg insist upon six monthly RMP audits for processing facilities, yet have planted 1,000's of ha of G3 and seem to be getting away with it...

Yes, go figure. A importer of honey told me that they never lobbied for the revamp of our audit system. It was offered. I feel that MPI develop systems to create revenue, which can be sugar coated as a 'market requirement'.

MPI is a business. I think, what next?? 

Look at the audits, they barely look at facility, but the paperwork which is complicated. And it's created and audited by the same. Nice circle.

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was told by an auditor that the Chinese had insisted on the bi-annual audits, and that MPI didn't really want it.  

 

I just went and counted 65 separate documents as part of our RMP......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, CraBee said:

I was told by an auditor that the Chinese had insisted on the bi-annual audits, and that MPI didn't really want it.  

 

I just went and counted 65 separate documents as part of our RMP......

Who to believe? I don't think that MPI have beekeeper interest forefront. The outfall from new standards gave market security but Beekeepers suffer. MPI don't stand up for us, the biannual audit is a joke, (maybe relevant for large packers), MPI will keep it thank you very much!

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Why is it that the Chinese are able to come to NZ and eg insist upon six monthly RMP audits for processing facilities, yet have planted 1,000's of ha of G3 and seem to be getting away with it...

We are a collection of very small islands inhabited by some clever people at the far reaches of the world . 
Most of the time , the rest of the world barely knows we exist and just because we have laws , it will not stop others copying .

When you have billions to feed , I guess China’s perspective is different than ours 

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, john berry said:

I struggle with the ethics of charging members of your own co-op a huge fee to replace a disease prone variety that they have paid for the right to plant.

Yep.

But, after spending 300k for license, 275k for land and who knows what to install all the posts wires and the cost of actually buying the plants and planting them and waiting for their first crop. There is probably at least one million per hectare tied up because they don't produce fruit instantly. However, the returns they've been getting have I'm told been around $300k profit per ha. So, after about 3.5 years the whole thing has paid for itself and all the bank loans are done. Growers who already know how to do all this have money rolling in already at $300k per ha and the logical home to put this money in appears to be buying dairy farms with lower valuations.. At the end of the day the 300k per hectare per year license is not their biggest cost and there is so much money coming in who would care? The continuing R&D and attempts to protect counterfeit production entering their markets is probably money well spent. That's business (?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

Yep.

But, after spending 300k for license, 275k for land and who knows what to install all the posts wires and the cost of actually buying the plants and planting them and waiting for their first crop. There is probably at least one million per hectare tied up because they don't produce fruit instantly. However, the returns they've been getting have I'm told been around $300k profit per ha. So, after about 3.5 years the whole thing has paid for itself and all the bank loans are done. Growers who already know how to do all this have money rolling in already at $300k per ha and the logical home to put this money in appears to be buying dairy farms with lower valuations.. At the end of the day the 300k per hectare per year license is not their biggest cost and there is so much money coming in who would care? The continuing R&D and attempts to protect counterfeit production entering their markets is probably money well spent. That's business (?).

If they are doing so well how come they can not afford  pay decent wages for the labour to pick and pack their fruit.

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

If they are doing so well how come they can not afford  pay decent wages for the labour to pick and pack their fruit.

Ah, well that's the Packhouse/contractors. Contract work charged similar to regular Green. Can't really charge more for G3...

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...