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Alastair

The Oxalic Staple Info Processing Thread

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The spring treatment, did you replace the strips at 4 weeks as I did? After i did this, I discovered a lot of people never heard of the idea, and still happy with their mite control.

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My hives had winter staples pulled out end of July and fresh staples placed.. then I split and more than doubled numbers sending 2 with each unit. Which are being removed now as I prep them all for shifting. 

Back at work they run back to back treatments.. same as you.. pull them after 5-6 wks and replace and or replace as they’re chewed. 

Back to back treatment in my view is NOT what’s killed your bees.

Otherwise works hives would not be sitting on their summer sites boxed up to the heavens.. 

But that said.. I’m a far less experienced beekeeper than yourself... 

if I was you I wouldn’t treat with OX in winter but I don’t know your bees or your sites. 

 

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Having just got back from my Coromandel hives today , not that exciting. Dropped in 2 weeks ago 

Cororapa symptoms, not many older bees , brood gone spotty in about 1/2 ,  3 queens superceding out of 32 . Requeened 6 and will take more next visit .

Had Ox staples all spring , pulled before they went .

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1 hour ago, Stoney said:

As for the testing I agree, it would be great for the greater cause but we are currently living on the bones of my backside and testing is not on my priority list at all until I’ve sold the honey my bees are yet to collect.. 

your losses sound far worse than anything I’ve experienced. 

I only have 200 colonies of my own which are very much my babies. 

I have stepped out of my previous roll managing, only supplying contract labour but still keep up to date with the team. 

DWV is almost non existent in mine and the company I managed. 

I should say.. never seen .. not non existent as we have not tested 

With you doing ok, and yr southern neighbour not so well, test results would be interesting. Would you consider carrying out the exercise  & get the bill sent to me ? I don't wear that enquiring look for nothing...

Edited by yesbut
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I used Ox staples autumn and winter and put new ones in August and started replacing them in November as they where getting floppy and chewed. Only seen mites on drone brood between boxes on 3 hives and in 3 nucs where staple wasn’t replaced .

Had very good results with 1 staple in 5 frame nuc autumn winter replaced in August as feeders went in , not replaced and being pulled now as feeders come out .

 

Had my usual high Hive losses but that was probably my poor management last autumn combined with last season’s effects.

Early treated hives (end Feb) were good  , end March and April not great , mites under control but weak , wasps ate lots and some yards spent lots of time robbing somewhere getting weaker and heavier and moved away from staples so poor mite control by August.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, yesbut said:

With you doing ok, and yr southern neighbour not so well, test results would be interesting. Would you consider carrying out the exercise  & get the bill sent to me ? I don't wear that enquiring look for nothing...

I’m a stubbies and gumboots wearing southern bloke.. your generous offer would strike me with a severe feeling I owed you...

a bowl of milk or a bellbird carcass ...(whatever cats eat) 

I could always mail you some bees.. which you could do whatever you wanted with them.. 

 

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Well what do these tests cost ? Someone ?

Edited by yesbut

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We struggled for bees for late cell rearing last season and used up a heap of singles to boost hives and took bulk bees to also boost hives .

hives shut down earlier last season having burnt themselves out on the bush followed by the big dry .
Other beekeepers that do bulk bees commented they struggled to get the numbers they usually do last season 

My hives came through weak and took a while to get going .Wether this is a suppression effect of the Oxalic staple is to be experimented with this winter.

Winter bee turn over appeared to be earlier this season ( mild winter) which didn’t help 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Well what do these tests cost ? Someone ?

May as well list your bike on trade me now to pay for it... 😬

3 minutes ago, Rob Atkinson said:

We struggled for bees for late cell rearing last season and used up a heap of singles to boost hives and took bulk bees to also boost hives .

hives shut down earlier last season having burnt themselves out on the bush followed by the big dry .
Other beekeepers that do bulk bees commented they struggled to get the numbers they usually do last season 

My hives came through weak and took a while to get going .Wether this is a suppression effect of the Oxalic staple is to be experimented with this winter.

Winter bee turn over appeared to be earlier this season ( mild winter) which didn’t help 

 

 

Where are you based? 

Last season was an absolute crapper down here.. low quality and amount.. one to forget for sure. 

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Results of testing December 2014 when Cororapa appeared in coromandel.

also a yard that had hives  that had fluffy wing syndrome ( nosema)  and shiny bees at entrance .

Havent tested any more bees since then but should for my education 

Black Lizard Holdings December2014 samples Bee Pathogen Report 12January2015.pdf

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What is N? Nil?

 

If so, i would have considered those results nothing to worry about. N. apis has been with us as long as bees have and is like a common cold for them, and BQCV only an issue if queen raising. BQCV is now present in almost every hive in the country.

1 hour ago, yesbut said:

Well what do these tests cost ? Someone ?

 

$85 + GST per test.

 

A test sample should have 10 to 15 bees. So i didn't want to test just one hive and maybe it was a good one and i get a misleading result. I took 2 bees each from 8 hives per sample, and I chose the worst looking 8 in each catagory, to have the best chance to pic up any nasties that may be around. I also attempted to get any unwell looking bees, if there were any.

Edited by Alastair

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It's funny how it's acceptable to 'lose,check,' a significant portion of bees. 

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I have never heard of or seen Black Queen Cell Virus . Google was some  help .

Can  someone expand on this in our NZ environment 

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It's a virus that affects queen larvae. About the time of capping they die and turn to a watery mush, with a skin. At first grey, then eventually black streaks in it. 

 

For a beekeeper who does no cell raising, may be most noticeable at swarming time. While killing queen cells you may find the odd one with an already dead larva in it. Normally after capping but pre pupa.

 

I do find an occasional drone larva in similar condition, not sure if it's the same virus, or something else.

 

The virus has been shown to come and go to some extent seasonally, but commonly present in up to 99% of NZ hives. This virus is the reason i recommend when culling queen cells in a swarmed hive, to cull down to 2, rather than one. It is also the reason why queen raisers "candle", or "rattle" queen cells, prior to placing them in a nuc.

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8 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

It's funny how it's acceptable to 'lose,check,' a significant portion of bees. 

Cost  is the reason when incomes have dropped.   But that is how we tested a few years ago. 

Staff bought back hives with a handful of bees and a queen still trying to lay, chilled brood because of a rapidly decreased labour force over a 3 week period.  I took a few sample of bees and queens from the group and and sent them for testing. 

John for Dnature choose to single the queens out of the group and tested them himself but shared the results.  The queens were good (pathogen free) the bees had a mix of Lotmaria Passim and Nosema cereane in high loadings.  I also cut out some comb from the brood area where the dwindling was.  That tested high for the nasties as did the bees.  That is why I heat treat my cororapa boxes.    I only heat treat good boxes and  dead brood frames and black wax get steam water blasted and rewaxed.

 

We didnt have a heat room.  I discovered indooor growing tents so for $500 I got a 2metre square one.  It can soften 4 drums of honey at a time for farmers honey and I stack boxes in 4 stacks 5 high using my wooden entrance blockers to seperate each box. I have the air circulating and using an oil heater and a little fan heater. It used to take me about 24 hours to get the temperatures up there.  now someone leant me some old growing bulbs (they conduct a different heat) The combination of the heaters and the bulbs means the job is done in about 10 hours.  crude I know but cheap is what I have wanted and get the job done.  I also have a growing fan circulating the air.  I bought the cheapest tent but from what I understand I could have bought the more expensive brand and would have better insulation, and those ones are twice the price.  Heat loss is not something I want with the tent set up in the big cold shed in the middle of winter.  The tent gets put up in the shed in a corner each winter and taken down before honey starts.  Every stack of boxesis separate to have air circulating.   I did this because of James Sainsburys work on heating boxes.

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That's great info Fieldbee.

 

At the time you were losing bees to OA and they tested high for nasties, did you have any comparative tests done on hives that did not lose bees to the OA?

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7 hours ago, Alastair said:

What is N? Nil?

 

If so, i would have considered those results nothing to worry about. N. apis has been with us as long as bees have and is like a common cold for them, and BQCV only an issue if queen raising. BQCV is now present in almost every hive in the country.

 

$85 + GST per test.

 

A test sample should have 10 to 15 bees. So i didn't want to test just one hive and maybe it was a good one and i get a misleading result. I took 2 bees each from 8 hives per sample, and I chose the worst looking 8 in each catagory, to have the best chance to pic up any nasties that may be around. I also attempted to get any unwell looking bees, if there were any.

In this morning's slightly nippy & clearer air I'm feeling a lot less altruistic.  I've remembered the new wheel I've ordered but not yet paid for....

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Yeah. The man just saved more than $85 in bacon. 😄

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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

That's great info Fieldbee.

 

At the time you were losing bees to OA and they tested high for nasties, did you have any comparative tests done on hives that did not lose bees to the OA?

Oops sorry didnt mean that to be misleading.  I tested a few years ago  before I tried OA.  No I wanted to know what was in those dying hives.  However I know that I have lost some hives to Corrorapa this year when using OA.   

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30 minutes ago, fieldbee said:

Oops sorry didnt mean that to be misleading.  I tested a few years ago  before I tried OA.  No I wanted to know what was in those dying hives.  However I know that I have lost some hives to Corrorapa this year when using OA.   

I have heard that these tents can be sat up on sheets of polystrene and covered in old duvet inners to keep the heat in when they are sat in cold sheds in winter .

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3 hours ago, M4tt said:

I have never heard of or seen Black Queen Cell Virus . Google was some  help .

Can  someone expand on this in our NZ environment 

Common, I find tends to peak early November along with sac brood but all season .

From a queen cell rearing perspective cells are all candled with a light to show any affected cells , dark blob at the tip of queen cell .

Any cell builder hive that shows regular BQCV is removed from yard and Requeened .
 

My 2014 testing showed BQCV is correlated with with high nosema apis .

 

My years of queen rearing and being in the same large yard every days for months in the season shows beehives  have regular plagues and they differ from year to year and generally don’t have a major impact, Occasionally they do for a week or 2 

The only major bee loss that I have noticed with Ox staples was in some full box splits that my worker put wet staples in from bottom of bucket when told not to use .

killed a few cups of bees in each , good learning curve !!!.

New rule , don’t use wet Oxalic staples 

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6 minutes ago, Rob Atkinson said:

My 2014 testing showed BQCV is correlated with with high nosema apis .

 

Hey that's a handy bit of info Rob, thanks for sharing your research!

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Forecast for 30 degrees in Putaruru today so I got in to my home hives early to beat the heat.

 

i had in mind to take photo before I removed the Oxalic/glycerin gib strips....I forgot.

 

these strips went in at start of September. Removed today.

i honestly can’t remember if there were more strips in, but it looks like I put 5 in. the 5th was when I added the 2nd brood box 4 weeks ago.
 

15 frames with brood, lots backfilled with nectar and surprise surprise,  swarm cells.

DBBB7F54-43DC-4DD6-A14A-901213E8F009.thumb.jpeg.04468713de7c15df76a745a9ce867652.jpegE9732467-439B-4666-AE0E-DAC536EAC4C5.thumb.jpeg.d7f7e16dbe425373add9b56941caad29.jpeg5842A41D-11A4-4498-AB28-F477A94A6434.thumb.jpeg.1db8ca7a85895276e0f8d46877aa566f.jpeg

 

 

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Well that one came through better than a lot of mine!

 

As a man of inquiring mind Dan, would you be interested in testing them for nasties?

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