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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

Has anyone here witnessed first hand the loss of a significant number of hives from undetected AFB infection ?  I don't mean burning, I mean undetected infection resulting in total loss.

If you mean do hives die from AFB then yes absolutely I have seen plenty of hives that have died. Once the infection has established the hive will fall off its metaphorical perch 100% of the time. That wouldn't matter except that when it dies it gets robbed out by all its neighbours and eventually they die as well. I have inspected apiarys where there were dead robbed out hives, dying hives and infected hives and I have also found apiarys where all the hives were dead and robbed out but the hives were so decomposed you couldn't tell if it was AFB or not. The major outbreak in the area the year before might be considered circumstantial evidence in court but it was enough for me to persuade the landowner to burn everything. Never found out who owned these unregistered hives but I do know that at least some of the gear have been appropriated from neighbouring beekeepers without their knowledge.

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23 hours ago, yesbut said:

Has anyone here witnessed first hand the loss of a significant number of hives from undetected AFB infection ?  I don't mean burning, I mean undetected infection resulting in total loss.

By undetected, do you mean not noticed until to late, or do you mean the hive looked clean as a whistle two weeks ago but now all dead to AFB.

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

By undetected, do you mean not noticed until to late, or do you mean the hive looked clean as a whistle two weeks ago but now all dead to AFB.

My wee brain is simply tossing around the notion that as far as I can make out,  nearly all of the AFB "casualties" these days are a result of trying to "cure" it rather than a result of the infection itself.  I'm wondering if there is anyone still around who has personally witnessed wholesale killing of whole yards full of bees by AFB . All the written history says it's really destructive, and there must be a good basis for the legal requirements of today, but is there any chance the cure is now more costly than the disease ?

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2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:
On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 6:38 PM, yesbut said:

 

By undetected, do you mean not noticed until to late, or

 

4 minutes ago, yesbut said:

nearly all of the AFB "casualties" these days are a result of trying to "cure" it

 

Then there are those of us in some areas, who just cannot work out why we are getting AFB.  Sometimes it is bad beekeeping in the field, other times it has been storage of equipment by deceased estates. 

 

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44 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

My wee brain is simply tossing around the notion that as far as I can make out,  nearly all of the AFB "casualties" these days are a result of trying to "cure" it rather than a result of the infection itself.  I'm wondering if there is anyone still around who has personally witnessed wholesale killing of whole yards full of bees by AFB . All the written history says it's really destructive, and there must be a good basis for the legal requirements of today, but is there any chance the cure is now more costly than the disease ?

 

i've had afb hives that have almost gotten to the point of being robbed out.

i've heard of guys who lost large numbers of hive due to afb (which is where we got the afb from) so i'm sure there is people around who have seen it. quite possibly the AP2's that have been involved in some of the AFB write ups in the bee mag (eg 80% of a beek hives infected).

 

so no the cure is certainly cheaper than the disease.

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The biggest problem we are facing here is the lack  of knowledge. Unfortunately Ecrotec has made the unwise decision to sell beekeeping gear through Farmlands, thus encouraging many people to start up with bees on their farms. Farmlands staff know very little about beekeeping, organizations attached to beekeeping, local clubs or where to get assistance from those with expertise. If Ecrotec wishes to sell their merchandise then they should be held responsible for entrusting the farmers/ landowners with a livestock that in most cases they know nothing about. At every Farmlands store Ecrotec should have in place a stand holding a wealth of information ( pamphlets) covering every aspect of beekeeping and a full list of contact details for reaching out to receive help where they need it. 

Education is the important key, I foresee a greater rise in reported and non-reported AFB in NZ over the coming years. There are many reasons for this, that I will not delve into at this stage as I don't want this turning into an essay.

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1 hour ago, Old Timer said:

The biggest problem we are facing here is the lack  of knowledge. Unfortunately Ecrotec has made the unwise decision to sell beekeeping gear through Farmlands, thus encouraging many people to start up with bees on their farms. Farmlands staff know very little about beekeeping, organizations attached to beekeeping, local clubs or where to get assistance from those with expertise. If Ecrotec wishes to sell their merchandise then they should be held responsible for entrusting the farmers/ landowners with a livestock that in most cases they know nothing about. At every Farmlands store Ecrotec should have in place a stand holding a wealth of information ( pamphlets) covering every aspect of beekeeping and a full list of contact details for reaching out to receive help where they need it. 

Education is the important key, I foresee a greater rise in reported and non-reported AFB in NZ over the coming years. There are many reasons for this, that I will not delve into at this stage as I don't want this turning into an essay.

Ecrotek are only selling woodware, not bees. the bees are the issue, whom ever is selling the bees should be educating the person buying.

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3 hours ago, Old Timer said:

The biggest problem we are facing here is the lack  of knowledge. Unfortunately Ecrotec has made the unwise decision to sell beekeeping gear through Farmlands, thus encouraging many people to start up with bees on their farms. Farmlands staff know very little about beekeeping, organizations attached to beekeeping, local clubs or where to get assistance from those with expertise. If Ecrotec wishes to sell their merchandise then they should be held responsible for entrusting the farmers/ landowners with a livestock that in most cases they know nothing about. At every Farmlands store Ecrotec should have in place a stand holding a wealth of information ( pamphlets) covering every aspect of beekeeping and a full list of contact details for reaching out to receive help where they need it. 

Education is the important key, I foresee a greater rise in reported and non-reported AFB in NZ over the coming years. There are many reasons for this, that I will not delve into at this stage as I don't want this turning into an essay.

Im pleased as that farmland are selling ecrotek hiveware. A little dearer if not a shareholder but saves a 250km drive to get a few frames, treatments etc. Will even deliver to ya door. As for farmers having stock that theyd not be knowing  or learning much about, id bet that theres many more urban beekeepers buying bees off trademe, getting supplies from urban beekeeping supply stores that dont have a friggin clue. 

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23 hours ago, yesbut said:

 

My wee brain is simply tossing around the notion that as far as I can make out,  nearly all of the AFB "casualties" these days are a result of trying to "cure" it rather than a result of the infection itself.  I'm wondering if there is anyone still around who has personally witnessed wholesale killing of whole yards full of bees by AFB . All the written history says it's really destructive, and there must be a good basis for the legal requirements of today, but is there any chance the cure is now more costly than the disease ?

Thoughts like these have led many beekeepers onto the path of  total destruction. They fall into the same category as; a little bit pregnant or an almost honest politician. I have seen the results of beekeepers ignoring both the law and the science and it is never pretty.

Edited by john berry
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