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Trevor Gillbanks

October 2019 Apiary Diary

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13 hours ago, Jamo said:

Have been busy pulling brood and making splits with queen cells. When we use cell we always do the rock test to see if they "shake". Anyhow found a cell that didn't so pulled it apart and it had pupated but was dead. There was one lone mite in the cell.

So question time, has anyone else found a mite in a queen cell? This is the first time I have.

I always treat before rearing Queens, I open one up a day to check and make sure they're all good. 

One good trick is to turn the incubator off over night, it slows down development and gives you 3 or 4 more days. 

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Hi, would someone please explain to me whay the "rock test to see if ""they shake"" is? Jamo mentioned it in this thread. Thank you.

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If the larva died it will be white mush and won't rattle in the cell. If the lava is alive and close to hatching it will rattle and you can feel and hear that.

 

Course, you got to be careful how hard you rattle it. 😉

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So far i'v made 20 smart nucs up and have used 12 so far and swarming

seasons only just started, it's something to do on a rainy day😊

IMG_20191014_171710-2340x3120.jpg

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59 minutes ago, Aaron Andrews said:

Hi, would someone please explain to me whay the "rock test to see if ""they shake"" is? Jamo mentioned it in this thread. Thank you.

Another version for it is candleing where you hold the cell up to a candle/light and tip the cell to see the shadow of the queen inside, she should move in the cell as you tip it slightly.

Shaking the cell is the same thing is to see/feel the movement of the queen inside.

The shaking is not "shake rattle and roll" but a more gentle shake, like you would shake you whisky glass to swirl the ice cubes.

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19 hours ago, Jamo said:

Have been busy pulling brood and making splits with queen cells. When we use cell we always do the rock test to see if they "shake". Anyhow found a cell that didn't so pulled it apart and it had pupated but was dead. There was one lone mite in the cell.

So question time, has anyone else found a mite in a queen cell? This is the first time I have.

I have heard of it from somewhere but cant remember where.
 

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6 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

I always treat before rearing Queens, I open one up a day to check and make sure they're all good. 

One good trick is to turn the incubator off over night, it slows down development and gives you 3 or 4 more days. 

Hi ya Maru, not sure if you joking...

If I leave my incubator off overnight on 10 day cells. I don't trust those queens to work out. 

 

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22 hours ago, kevin moore said:

Thermalised, now thats a new one i've not heard about, what is it and how is it done and what is the purpose of it pls

heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing.

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1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Hi ya Maru, not sure if you joking...

If I leave my incubator off overnight on 10 day cells. I don't trust those queens to work out. 

 

Iv done my tests and they're sweet az, mind you it's warmer in northland

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We have a clever friend beek who has installed the thermalising  “Willy Wonka” machine a couple of years ago which draws excess moisture from the honey bringing it down below 18. No idea how it works but it works for us. We’ve had problems in the last few years with drums getting that growing & expanding thing going on. It seems to be an East Coast problem, and not one you want when honey is hard to move anyway. It’s pretty hard to Market drums on the move. 

 

They are old friends and with our offsider (who usually does 50% of the work) @Daleyon almost permanent maternity leave we gave up extracting our own honey completely last year. I miss the knowledge gained from watching the frames processed but something had to give.

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14 hours ago, tristan said:

heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing.

 

You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated  (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays.

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On 13/10/2019 at 10:43 PM, Jamo said:

When we use cell we always do the rock test


What is the rock test?

 

I found a varroa attached to a queen a couple of years ago...😬

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10 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:


What is the rock test?

 

I found a varroa attached to a queen a couple of years ago...😬

 

Alastair explains it a few posts above 

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Yes, thanks... I read it and tried to edit my post but was out of time 😝

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1 hour ago, Gerrit said:

 

You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated  (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays.

So what you chuck a dehumidifier in the hot room?

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1 hour ago, Daley said:

So what you chuck a dehumidifier in the hot room?

 

No, after extraction it goes through the dehydrator until the required moisture level is achieved and then drummed off.

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18 minutes ago, Gerrit said:

 

No, after extraction it goes through the dehydrator until the required moisture level is achieved and then drummed off.

Just a heads up from apimondea with what may come down the pipeline sometime inregards to honey.

The chinese take unripened honey out of their hive and then "ripen' dehydrate it in factories, there is a call to stop allowing this process happening as honey should be ripened in the hive before extraction. If so there may be a pushback for nz manuka that is ripened in the same way.

There is a way forward but it will take some research to allow the process to continue to stop fermentation, under the grex there is already one honey from Europe/UK that has the same problem and has dispensation to ripen it. 

Get on top of one issue and another arises.

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you commercial guys just can't  win.

when there was barely a living in being a beek you were all physically exhausted from all the hard work .

now there is money in it you all must be intellectually exhausted trying to keep up with all the cheats out there.

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2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Just a heads up from apimondea with what may come down the pipeline sometime inregards to honey.

The chinese take unripened honey out of their hive and then "ripen' dehydrate it in factories, there is a call to stop allowing this process happening as honey should be ripened in the hive before extraction. If so there may be a pushback for nz manuka that is ripened in the same way.

There is a way forward but it will take some research to allow the process to continue to stop fermentation, under the grex there is already one honey from Europe/UK that has the same problem and has dispensation to ripen it. 

Get on top of one issue and another arises.

 

I can only speak for what we do. Dependent on where the honey is harvested, the moisture can vary lots. Have seen nice capped honey of over 20% and even capped honey, where cappings "blow" due to fermentation (see it sometimes during extraction). So, how is ripening defined? We only dehydrate to make the product safer and the method we use is similar to what the bees do sort of. When honey after extraction measures 20% moisture; leaving it at that is no option; so we have to lower it. And as I said, most of this honey has ripened and had been capped. I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this.

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1 minute ago, Gerrit said:

I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this.

As opposed to heating it to 70c  then hitting it with a vacuum...

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20 minutes ago, yesbut said:

As opposed to heating it to 70c  then hitting it with a vacuum...

 

Exactly, thanks for mentioning it.

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1 hour ago, Gerrit said:

 

I can only speak for what we do. Dependent on where the honey is harvested, the moisture can vary lots. Have seen nice capped honey of over 20% and even capped honey, where cappings "blow" due to fermentation (see it sometimes during extraction). So, how is ripening defined? We only dehydrate to make the product safer and the method we use is similar to what the bees do sort of. When honey after extraction measures 20% moisture; leaving it at that is no option; so we have to lower it. And as I said, most of this honey has ripened and had been capped. I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this.

 

I'm interested in how you go about dehydrating it, if you can say?

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8 hours ago, Gerrit said:

 

You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated  (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays.

new is probably not the correct term, it hasn't been all that common.

however now we have far more people who take honey off wet so they can move hives to the next flow, and then get their honey dried and heat treated (for CFU's).

 

i would be interested to see what setup you have. i have seen some that don;t require high heat. have toyed with the idea on putting something in the extraction plant so its dried if required before its drummed especially has the honey is still warm.

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On 14/10/2019 at 6:28 PM, tristan said:

heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing.

so is this honey passed over a hot surface like pasteurization, but not as hot maybe !

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