Maru Hoani 322 Posted October 13 13 hours ago, Jamo said: Have been busy pulling brood and making splits with queen cells. When we use cell we always do the rock test to see if they "shake". Anyhow found a cell that didn't so pulled it apart and it had pupated but was dead. There was one lone mite in the cell. So question time, has anyone else found a mite in a queen cell? This is the first time I have. I always treat before rearing Queens, I open one up a day to check and make sure they're all good. One good trick is to turn the incubator off over night, it slows down development and gives you 3 or 4 more days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Andrews 41 Posted October 14 Hi, would someone please explain to me whay the "rock test to see if ""they shake"" is? Jamo mentioned it in this thread. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alastair 6809 Posted October 14 If the larva died it will be white mush and won't rattle in the cell. If the lava is alive and close to hatching it will rattle and you can feel and hear that. Course, you got to be careful how hard you rattle it. 😉 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maru Hoani 322 Posted October 14 So far i'v made 20 smart nucs up and have used 12 so far and swarming seasons only just started, it's something to do on a rainy day😊 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dennis Crowley 999 Posted October 14 59 minutes ago, Aaron Andrews said: Hi, would someone please explain to me whay the "rock test to see if ""they shake"" is? Jamo mentioned it in this thread. Thank you. Another version for it is candleing where you hold the cell up to a candle/light and tip the cell to see the shadow of the queen inside, she should move in the cell as you tip it slightly. Shaking the cell is the same thing is to see/feel the movement of the queen inside. The shaking is not "shake rattle and roll" but a more gentle shake, like you would shake you whisky glass to swirl the ice cubes. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philbee 4536 Posted October 14 19 hours ago, Jamo said: Have been busy pulling brood and making splits with queen cells. When we use cell we always do the rock test to see if they "shake". Anyhow found a cell that didn't so pulled it apart and it had pupated but was dead. There was one lone mite in the cell. So question time, has anyone else found a mite in a queen cell? This is the first time I have. I have heard of it from somewhere but cant remember where. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gino de Graaf 624 Posted October 14 6 hours ago, Maru Hoani said: I always treat before rearing Queens, I open one up a day to check and make sure they're all good. One good trick is to turn the incubator off over night, it slows down development and gives you 3 or 4 more days. Hi ya Maru, not sure if you joking... If I leave my incubator off overnight on 10 day cells. I don't trust those queens to work out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tristan 3892 Posted October 14 22 hours ago, kevin moore said: Thermalised, now thats a new one i've not heard about, what is it and how is it done and what is the purpose of it pls heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maru Hoani 322 Posted October 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said: Hi ya Maru, not sure if you joking... If I leave my incubator off overnight on 10 day cells. I don't trust those queens to work out. Iv done my tests and they're sweet az, mind you it's warmer in northland Edited October 14 by Maru Hoani Spelling error 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bron 2486 Posted October 14 We have a clever friend beek who has installed the thermalising “Willy Wonka” machine a couple of years ago which draws excess moisture from the honey bringing it down below 18. No idea how it works but it works for us. We’ve had problems in the last few years with drums getting that growing & expanding thing going on. It seems to be an East Coast problem, and not one you want when honey is hard to move anyway. It’s pretty hard to Market drums on the move. They are old friends and with our offsider (who usually does 50% of the work) @Daleyon almost permanent maternity leave we gave up extracting our own honey completely last year. I miss the knowledge gained from watching the frames processed but something had to give. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerrit 180 Posted October 14 14 hours ago, tristan said: heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing. You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHCHPaul 329 Posted October 14 On 13/10/2019 at 10:43 PM, Jamo said: When we use cell we always do the rock test What is the rock test? I found a varroa attached to a queen a couple of years ago...😬 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellsbelle 34 Posted October 14 10 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said: What is the rock test? I found a varroa attached to a queen a couple of years ago...😬 Alastair explains it a few posts above Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHCHPaul 329 Posted October 14 Yes, thanks... I read it and tried to edit my post but was out of time 😝 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daley 4280 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Gerrit said: You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays. So what you chuck a dehumidifier in the hot room? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerrit 180 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Daley said: So what you chuck a dehumidifier in the hot room? No, after extraction it goes through the dehydrator until the required moisture level is achieved and then drummed off. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dennis Crowley 999 Posted October 15 18 minutes ago, Gerrit said: No, after extraction it goes through the dehydrator until the required moisture level is achieved and then drummed off. Just a heads up from apimondea with what may come down the pipeline sometime inregards to honey. The chinese take unripened honey out of their hive and then "ripen' dehydrate it in factories, there is a call to stop allowing this process happening as honey should be ripened in the hive before extraction. If so there may be a pushback for nz manuka that is ripened in the same way. There is a way forward but it will take some research to allow the process to continue to stop fermentation, under the grex there is already one honey from Europe/UK that has the same problem and has dispensation to ripen it. Get on top of one issue and another arises. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaihoka 2496 Posted October 15 you commercial guys just can't win. when there was barely a living in being a beek you were all physically exhausted from all the hard work . now there is money in it you all must be intellectually exhausted trying to keep up with all the cheats out there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerrit 180 Posted October 15 2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said: Just a heads up from apimondea with what may come down the pipeline sometime inregards to honey. The chinese take unripened honey out of their hive and then "ripen' dehydrate it in factories, there is a call to stop allowing this process happening as honey should be ripened in the hive before extraction. If so there may be a pushback for nz manuka that is ripened in the same way. There is a way forward but it will take some research to allow the process to continue to stop fermentation, under the grex there is already one honey from Europe/UK that has the same problem and has dispensation to ripen it. Get on top of one issue and another arises. I can only speak for what we do. Dependent on where the honey is harvested, the moisture can vary lots. Have seen nice capped honey of over 20% and even capped honey, where cappings "blow" due to fermentation (see it sometimes during extraction). So, how is ripening defined? We only dehydrate to make the product safer and the method we use is similar to what the bees do sort of. When honey after extraction measures 20% moisture; leaving it at that is no option; so we have to lower it. And as I said, most of this honey has ripened and had been capped. I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yesbut 5525 Posted October 15 1 minute ago, Gerrit said: I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this. As opposed to heating it to 70c then hitting it with a vacuum... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerrit 180 Posted October 15 20 minutes ago, yesbut said: As opposed to heating it to 70c then hitting it with a vacuum... Exactly, thanks for mentioning it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CraBee 1476 Posted October 15 1 hour ago, Gerrit said: I can only speak for what we do. Dependent on where the honey is harvested, the moisture can vary lots. Have seen nice capped honey of over 20% and even capped honey, where cappings "blow" due to fermentation (see it sometimes during extraction). So, how is ripening defined? We only dehydrate to make the product safer and the method we use is similar to what the bees do sort of. When honey after extraction measures 20% moisture; leaving it at that is no option; so we have to lower it. And as I said, most of this honey has ripened and had been capped. I have chosen to lower the moisture by trying not to damage the honey by heating. I always thought we did the right thing and hope we'll get confirmation of this. I'm interested in how you go about dehydrating it, if you can say? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tristan 3892 Posted October 15 8 hours ago, Gerrit said: You say that moisture removal is a new thing. We have done it for about 15 years and we do it before the honey goes in the drum. We have lowered the target to 16.5 %, because honey gets stored for longer. The honey is not heated (< 30C, below hive temp.) during the moisture removal, so all the goodness of the product stays. new is probably not the correct term, it hasn't been all that common. however now we have far more people who take honey off wet so they can move hives to the next flow, and then get their honey dried and heat treated (for CFU's). i would be interested to see what setup you have. i have seen some that don;t require high heat. have toyed with the idea on putting something in the extraction plant so its dried if required before its drummed especially has the honey is still warm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin moore 623 Posted October 15 On 14/10/2019 at 6:28 PM, tristan said: heat treated aka flash heating. also can be combined with moisture removal. the moisture removal is the new thing. so is this honey passed over a hot surface like pasteurization, but not as hot maybe ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yesbut 5525 Posted October 15 6 minutes ago, kevin moore said: so is this honey passed over a hot surface like pasteurization, but not as hot maybe ! Here's one outfit......http://www.thermaflo.co.nz/processing/integrated-solution/honey/thermalisation/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
