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Climate Change Protests

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So I watched the news tonight and the many thousands turning out for the climate change protests.  Young and old were demanding action from the govt.  My question is: what exactly do they want the govt to do to address the issue?  Have they actually got ideas that will make a real tangible difference and if so have they thought through the consequences of putting those ideas into action?  I saw one teenager commenting that the govt is too concerned about the economy and needs to put climate change solutions ahead of it.  Has she considered what a failing economy would do to society - health, education, welfare etc etc?  I am not doubting the science but am really struggling to see how, without massive change to the way we live, it will be possible to turn things around.  Are the youth of today prepared to sacrifice air travel, cars, mobile phones etc to secure their future tomorrow??  I think not.

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I think there is more chance of young people giving up things that will compromise their future than there is of aging baby boomers giving up their air travel , cruises , McMansions , Harley davidsons ,  large pensions and all the resources of modern medicine designed to keep them forever young .

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7 hours ago, Ted said:

So I watched the news tonight and the many thousands turning out for the climate change protests.  Young and old were demanding action from the govt.  My question is: what exactly do they want the govt to do to address the issue?  Have they actually got ideas that will make a real tangible difference and if so have they thought through the consequences of putting those ideas into action?  I saw one teenager commenting that the govt is too concerned about the economy and needs to put climate change solutions ahead of it.  Has she considered what a failing economy would do to society - health, education, welfare etc etc?  I am not doubting the science but am really struggling to see how, without massive change to the way we live, it will be possible to turn things around.  Are the youth of today prepared to sacrifice air travel, cars, mobile phones etc to secure their future tomorrow??  I think not.

That's exactly the issue, we can't suffer. 

Any idea is always going to hurt. 

 Youth and their off spring will suffer more. But they have no power but to protest. 

Look at the proposed clean water policy, farmers will protest as uneconomic ideals - they have power and will dilute the policies. Governments are Growth fixated. Good environmental intent will always hurt in the short term. 

Policy for recyclable plastics only. 

The Dutch re-used plastic bottles. 

Policy for milk in glass. 

Both will cost but we know they are good ideas. If Fontera can misplace 600M then what's the big deal using glass. 

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Bearing in mind , the school environment is the perfect place to brainwash young minds . They haven’t learned to think laterally yet .

 

Every protester could be thanked for their concern with some vegetable seeds and some instruction and support on how to grow them 

That type of thing .

 

Its not entirely their fault for reacting as they do . They are just following the masses 

 

 

These young people should be able to be taught to find their own solutions .  

 

Some of us Environmental Custodians have been in a journey all our lives , improving our own spaces .

 

Governments have a track record of taxing heavily to suit their own agenda 

Edited by M4tt
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Controlling carbon emissions will lead to less pollution which is a good thing but the reality is anything New Zealand does will have a negligible effect other than setting a good example to the rest of the world.. That in itself is a worthwhile goal.  Overpopulation is I believe an even bigger threat and a leading cause of global warming but  no political party including the Greens is even interested in trying to decrease our population let alone control rampant population growth in developing countries. I'm not against immigration but we can't take all the world's poor and pretty soon we won't be able to feed them either.

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11 hours ago, Ted said:

So I watched the news tonight and the many thousands turning out for the climate change protests.  Young and old were demanding action from the govt.  My question is: what exactly do they want the govt to do to address the issue?  Have they actually got ideas that will make a real tangible difference and if so have they thought through the consequences of putting those ideas into action?  I saw one teenager commenting that the govt is too concerned about the economy and needs to put climate change solutions ahead of it.  Has she considered what a failing economy would do to society - health, education, welfare etc etc?  I am not doubting the science but am really struggling to see how, without massive change to the way we live, it will be possible to turn things around.  Are the youth of today prepared to sacrifice air travel, cars, mobile phones etc to secure their future tomorrow??  I think not.

I should add that I for one would be happy to revert back to a much simpler way of life - self sufficiency is something that has always been close to my heart.  I just don’t think the majority of society have the will or the ability to take that leap and the small changes being made eg single use supermarket bags will not make enough of a difference to halt the global warming trend.

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56 minutes ago, john berry said:

Controlling carbon emissions will lead to less pollution which is a good thing but the reality is anything New Zealand does will have a negligible effect other than setting a good example to the rest of the world.. That in itself is a worthwhile goal.  Overpopulation is I believe an even bigger threat and a leading cause of global warming but  no political party including the Greens is even interested in trying to decrease our population let alone control rampant population growth in developing countries. I'm not against immigration but we can't take all the world's poor and pretty soon we won't be able to feed them either.

I think the demands of   the worlds families with one or two children are probably the ones using a disproportionate amount of the worlds resources and causing the most pollution rather than the families with 7 or 8 .

That said I think the the human  carrying capacity of the earth is right on the edge .

31 minutes ago, Ted said:

I should add that I for one would be happy to revert back to a much simpler way of life - self sufficiency is something that has always been close to my heart.  I just don’t think the majority of society have the will or the ability to take that leap and the small changes being made eg single use supermarket bags will not make enough of a difference to halt the global warming trend.

I have lived a simple sustainable life for 40 yrs and I can tell you its bloody hard work .

And now at 63 I am hanging out for AI and decent robots .

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28 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

I think the demands of   the worlds families with one or two children are probably the ones using a disproportionate amount of the worlds resources and causing the most pollution rather than the families with 7 or 8 .

That said I think the the human  carrying capacity of the earth is right on the edge .

I have lived a simple sustainable life for 40 yrs and I can tell you its bloody hard work .

And now at 63 I am hanging out for AI and decent robots .

What .... AI at your age ....😡

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9 minutes ago, jamesc said:

What .... AI at your age ....😡

I wondered as well😳

 

Artificial Intelligence perhaps ?

 

I doubt its Artificial Insemination 😂

 

The conversation on sustainable world resources versus carrying capacity has to be had one way or another .

 

That conversation has started , but we are still skirting around the edges blaming every one else , or every one else’s perceived activities on our demise .

 

From my perspective of the world , NZ is a world leader in resource management , carbon sinking and oxygen production , and possibly now , reduction in plastic wastage , already . We just need to believe it . 

We are more fortunate than a heck of a lot of the world , with a benign climate and a relatively sustainable population . 

 

The rest of the the world could learn a thing or two from us , and we should celebrate the good things achieved and continue to improve . 

 

Im not convinced Government involvement is at all helpful , but their support would be greatly appreciated . Some of their expert advice is based on seriously flawed pseudo science , which isn’t altogether their fault .

 

We don’t need to copy the rest of the world 

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3 hours ago, M4tt said:

doubt its Artificial Insemination

God no !!!

3 hours ago, M4tt said:

Artificial Intelligence perhaps ?

Definitely feel the need these days , my neurons do not fire like they used too.😂

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I was talking to a 17 year old female the other week, who was very much for climate change, and that she really wanted to do her bit for it. I asked her if she was going to have children. She assured me yes as 'she loved babies'. I asked her if she was going to use cotton or disposable nappies, and that I had heard that it can take up to five hundred years for a disposable nappy to break down. She didn't know how to answer my question, but remained in considerably deep thought for a while.

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I've looked at the projections of the possible impacts of 2-3 degrees celcius and am worried. Let alone anything higher. I am also thankful for living in NZ because I think it is going to get very bad in some parts of the world. Even the NIWA climate change predictions, which are pretty mild, have some worrying aspects. I am hoping the more extreme predictions don't come true because that will be ending the overpopulation problem.

 

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6 hours ago, Ted said:

I should add that I for one would be happy to revert back to a much simpler way of life - self sufficiency is something that has always been close to my heart.  I just don’t think the majority of society have the will or the ability to take that leap and the small changes being made eg single use supermarket bags will not make enough of a difference to halt the global warming trend.

I miss my single use plastic bags. Stupid policy really, as NZ pretty good at containing waste (on the whole...) compared to say Indonesia where rivers flow with plastic, straight out to sea. 

Makes us feel good and supermarkets don't need to pack our groceries... Win win. I think that producers using poor choice packaging could become more responsible. Say a tax on non recyclable packaging and tax breaks for the responsible ones.... Needs government willing to risk economic growth, in short term. 

4 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

I've looked at the projections of the possible impacts of 2-3 degrees celcius and am worried. Let alone anything higher. I am also thankful for living in NZ because I think it is going to get very bad in some parts of the world. Even the NIWA climate change predictions, which are pretty mild, have some worrying aspects. I am hoping the more extreme predictions don't come true because that will be ending the overpopulation problem.

 

Nah, population will move. To more stable environments. Like here, 

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23 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

I've looked at the projections of the possible impacts of 2-3 degrees celcius and am worried. Let alone anything higher. I am also thankful for living in NZ because I think it is going to get very bad in some parts of the world. Even the NIWA climate change predictions, which are pretty mild, have some worrying aspects. I am hoping the more extreme predictions don't come true because that will be ending the overpopulation problem.

 

2-3 deg C will be very serous for (To name a few places) most of  Whakatane, Papamoa, Auckand Airport, Wellington Airport, parts of Wellington City, Parts of Auckland city, Napier Airport,

Ohope, Hokitika, Matata, many inlets on the west coast of North Island, Whatawhata, etc

Just about everything 20km up the Waikato river from Port Waikato

Edited by Philbee
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24 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Nah, population will move. To more stable environments. Like here, 

 

4 minutes ago, Philbee said:

2-3 deg C will be very serous for (To name a few places) most of  Whakatane, Papamoa, Auckand Airport, Wellington Airport, parts of Wellington City, Parts of Auckland city, Napier Airport,

Ohope, Hokitika, Matata, many inlets on the west coast of North Island, Whatawhata, etc

Yeah, I wouldn't be buying anything coastal. Or low lying.

http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=-27.8390,138.1640&z=13&m=7

 

Edited by Markypoo
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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

2-3 deg C will be very serous for (To name a few places) most of  Whakatane, Papamoa, Auckand Airport, Wellington Airport, parts of Wellington City, Parts of Auckland city, Napier Airport,

Ohope, Hokitika, Matata, many inlets on the west coast of North Island, Whatawhata, etc

Just about everything 20km up the Waikato river from Port Waikato

I think golden bay will be ok .

the road to our place  will go under . But we have a tinny .

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1 hour ago, Markypoo said:

 Even the NIWA climate change predictions

Thank your lucky stars they are never right 👍

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3 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Thank your lucky stars they are never right 👍

They have been pretty right about the nasty spring .

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9 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Thank your lucky stars they are never right 👍

They aren't the only ones making the predictions unfortunately. 

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Been having a Big Think this afternoon  Uncle Ted.

 

Been sat on the tractor dragging a set of discs around a 25 ha paddock over at what we call the Sunnyside .  It' s destined to go into a crop of Rape and Rye to feed a mob of black heifers over the summer as part of the PGGW Go Beef plan.   They supply the stock. We graze them and split the profit at the end of the season.

 So I been burning diesel. Lotsa the stuff. The rest of the Famdamily are up north racing motorbikes, burning petrol. Lotsof it.

 

The tractor bucks like a wild bronc on the rough paddock. The Nor'west howls,  the six cylinder 120hp Deutz  growls  and roars as the she hits the hills pulling them cross cut discs that  turns the clod ,releasing the  earthy fresh smell of new life.

 

Above the flats the Sunny side rises in dips and hollows of matagouri and tussock to the ridge at almost 2,500' above the rising ocean.

It's our cattle country.

 

And the  thought runs like this.

If I was a true blue vegan  and wanted to cut down on the methane emissions of my farting cows I would be planting lentils on the cultivatable land. But no one has the balls to take a header and truck over the death road  to harvest them. And if I was a vegan the hills would be  retired under a government scheme that pays the cocky a grand a hectare to let the hills revert to what they were 150 years ago ..... Black beech and Totara. But we paid twice that for it when we bought it ..... so a grand  a hectare is basically beer money. Quite a lot of beer money mind you.

 

So cattle country it is and I will have to plant more trees to mitigate the cows pollutant gases. We'll graze those beefies and feed the select few who can afford to eat their protein. 

A few years ago I went to China and rode the  iron rails   west through that country at  the start  of  a Pilgrimage to the sacred mountain of Kailash in western Tibet, where it said the Big Spirit puts all his energy into the world.

And as I chewed on pigs trotters and slurped on cheap Peejuw with new found mates on those trains they told me of their dreams  .... to own a refrigerator, a microwave, and perhaps  a motorcar. 

All that is now reality, and that is why we have climate change and rising oceans.

 

The great unwashed want we have. The challenge for us is to lead the way and enjoy being  unwashed.

 

That is the only way we will save the planet.

 

Meanwhile, I'll burn some more diesel tommorow ..... I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

 

 

 

 

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I will do my bit for climate change when the sea level rises, by using less diesel driving to the beach to go fishing. 

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On 28/09/2019 at 7:02 PM, jamesc said:

Been having a Big Think this afternoon  Uncle Ted.

 

Been sat on the tractor dragging a set of discs around a 25 ha paddock over at what we call the Sunnyside .  It' s destined to go into a crop of Rape and Rye to feed a mob of black heifers over the summer as part of the PGGW Go Beef plan.   They supply the stock. We graze them and split the profit at the end of the season.

 So I been burning diesel. Lotsa the stuff. The rest of the Famdamily are up north racing motorbikes, burning petrol. Lotsof it.

 

The tractor bucks like a wild bronc on the rough paddock. The Nor'west howls,  the six cylinder 120hp Deutz  growls  and roars as the she hits the hills pulling them cross cut discs that  turns the clod ,releasing the  earthy fresh smell of new life.

 

Above the flats the Sunny side rises in dips and hollows of matagouri and tussock to the ridge at almost 2,500' above the rising ocean.

It's our cattle country.

 

And the  thought runs like this.

If I was a true blue vegan  and wanted to cut down on the methane emissions of my farting cows I would be planting lentils on the cultivatable land. But no one has the balls to take a header and truck over the death road  to harvest them. And if I was a vegan the hills would be  retired under a government scheme that pays the cocky a grand a hectare to let the hills revert to what they were 150 years ago ..... Black beech and Totara. But we paid twice that for it when we bought it ..... so a grand  a hectare is basically beer money. Quite a lot of beer money mind you.

 

So cattle country it is and I will have to plant more trees to mitigate the cows pollutant gases. We'll graze those beefies and feed the select few who can afford to eat their protein. 

A few years ago I went to China and rode the  iron rails   west through that country at  the start  of  a Pilgrimage to the sacred mountain of Kailash in western Tibet, where it said the Big Spirit puts all his energy into the world.

And as I chewed on pigs trotters and slurped on cheap Peejuw with new found mates on those trains they told me of their dreams  .... to own a refrigerator, a microwave, and perhaps  a motorcar. 

All that is now reality, and that is why we have climate change and rising oceans.

 

The great unwashed want we have. The challenge for us is to lead the way and enjoy being  unwashed.

 

That is the only way we will save the planet.

 

Meanwhile, I'll burn some more diesel tommorrow ..... I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

 

 

 

 

Ok u are burning diesel now but in 5 to 10 years your big mahine will be burning hydrogen and no ppluition. Now China what a joke.They have just signed a deal with the usa to buy loads more coal for their energy and steel plants.When this happens I feel sorry for the coming generations.

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34 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The great unwashed want we have. The challenge for us is to lead the way and enjoy being  unwashed.

 

That is the only way we will save the planet.

 

Meanwhile, I'll burn some more diesel tommorow ..... I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

Too true Uncle Jimmy!!  I spent my day today in very similar fashion to you and wondered if horses pulling ploughs and cultivators is the way to go.  I decided it’s not going to happen on my farm and I doubt on anyone else’s either!!  

6 minutes ago, Bighands said:

I feel so sorry for the coming generations

Yes I do to - but realistically what can we do??

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Dont be sorry Big Hands ..... it's evolution.   Mankind needs to eat to evolve, and whether we like it or not .... the planet needs more food ... and at the moment it needs diesel to make it.

I think we've gone beyond the  Clyde's  Ted  .... although as a young fellah it was always my dream to turn the dirt with a horse. 

The urban /rural divide is too big now ...... we have no way in heck in feeding Rolleston's  swelling population with a few acres and a horse. 

Food has become one of those 'Oh yeah' things ......   Thursdays is Pak'n'Save night ..... no big deal if I miss it, it'll still be there tomorrow . 

There may well come a time when  food becomes a ....'What , OMG .... you have food ...'

Of course Big Hands is right .... I see in the news that the Poms are developing a Hydrogen jet engine that can fly them to  New York in an  hour , or Sydney in four hours.

Thank God for the Poms   ... eh !

 

 

 

Edited by jamesc
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The climate Change will affect to all of us

The way to resolve, I don't know but I'm sure the technology can help if the big companys let it study alternatives, like cars don't use petrol,  use of clean energies....

We can do small things too in our consume (like don't buy food with palm oil,  look for things with less plastic packaged, don't burn all that disturb to me.... )

A lot of small things make big differences 

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/science/climate-change-is-affecting-the-mutual-relationship-between-bees-and-flowering-plants-7098741.html/amp

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