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Neville

Document Making your own creamed honey seed

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I used a paint stirrer on a battery drill , a creamed pohutukawa/ clover blend for seed .

Then took up a lot of fridge room for 3 weeks .

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Originally I used a pot of very hard Mānuka because I like hard honey on toast .

Ever since , I’ve used my own honey as seed . The dilution effect soon gets rid of any original flavour I would have thought . 

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On 21/09/2019 at 6:12 PM, Neville said:

Cheers all

I have ordered a stone mortar and pestle and will give it a go an a small trial batch.  Definitely want to retain the unique flavour that this honey has so if smashing it to pieces changes the flavour we wont be going any further.

I definitely wont be heating my honey up as shown in the video.

I have done this, it took about a hour to get 100g of  honey fine enough. Then added to 1kg of liquid honey.  The final results was a very find cream honey.

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On 21/09/2019 at 8:23 PM, tristan said:

whats actually in it?

what i see in their manual is basically just a stirrer.

yes pretty much  just a stirrer with four bits of flat steel attached these are set a different angles to push the honey up and down, seems to work very well

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1 hour ago, kevin moore said:

yes pretty much  just a stirrer with four bits of flat steel attached these are set a different angles to push the honey up and down, seems to work very well

Does it have a chiller (fridge) type system as well.  Creaming needs/should to be done at 8 Deg C.

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5 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Does it have a chiller (fridge) type system as well.  Creaming needs/should to be done at 8 Deg C.

No ,I believe the temp should be no higher than 14deg C

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Just now, Bighands said:

No ,I believe the temp should be no higher than 14 deg C

Sure, But summer temps are a lot higher than 14 deg C.  So a successful creamer would need to keep it somewhat below 14 deg C.

Regardless  8 deg C is less (no higher) than 14 deg C.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Sure, But summer temps are a lot higher than 14 deg C.  So a successful creamer would need to keep it somewhat below 14 deg C.

Regardless  8 deg C is less (no higher) than 14 deg C.

 

 

That is why I cream all my honey in the autum and winter and store it.

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Just now, Bighands said:

That is why I cream all my honey in the autumn and winter and store it.

Yep.  I certainly understand that.

We are talking about the Lyson Creaming Unit.

This unit is designed to be used all year round and supposedly makes a very nice creamed honey.  That is why I asked @kevin moore if it has a fridge/cooler unit.

 

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7 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Does it have a chiller (fridge) type system as well.  Creaming needs/should to be done at 8 Deg C.

It has no chiller and we have never used one, the honey is once creamed and package is stored in a cool room, we have only ever had one batch of creamed get the frosted look and this was bush for some reason, we are making a batch now and hope to do another couple before summer, we dont creamed in summer,

7 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Yep.  I certainly understand that.

We are talking about the Lyson Creaming Unit.

This unit is designed to be used all year round and supposedly makes a very nice creamed honey.  That is why I asked @kevin moore if it has a fridge/cooler unit.

 

it would be easy enough to add a few rounds of cooling tube around it if you had too

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10 hours ago, kevin moore said:

yes pretty much  just a stirrer with four bits of flat steel attached these are set a different angles to push the honey up and down, seems to work very well

ok, so its not really a "creamer" its just a stirrer to mix it. add starter, mix it up, pot it and store in a chiller for a while to set it.

 

the creaming machine i've seen is kind of like a gear pump with the gears not meshing. its basically a honey version of an egg beater. you pump honey through it to help break up the crystals (i presume). other than that i do not know any details on it. 

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yer,have not seen any other types of creamers so don't no any better ideas,

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Many perhaps most people these days think granulated and creamed honey are the same thing. Granulated honey is  liquid honey that has had a small crystal starter honey  added to it and then kept cool until it's gone solid. Creamed honey is a granulated honey that has been put through some sort of stirring\mashing process that breaks up the crystals  and it never goes as hard as granulated honey.

 

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On 19/09/2019 at 5:47 PM, Neville said:

I have 20kg of a particularly tasty honey which I suspect is a bled containing Macadamia.  It has a very dark and almost nutty flavour.  Everyone that tries it rave its the best honey they have ever tasted.  I no longer let anyone test it because they all want a jar and well ……..

The 20kg I have is crystallised in its extraction bucket. I want to cream some, but don't want to "contaminate" it with a seed from a different honey source.  How do I make a seed from this honey to then cream a larger portion?

Hi Neville, you don't need any seed honey to cream honey! this is a common misconception. We cream tonnes of honey at a time and do not use any seed honey it just takes a little longer but we can still cream some honey types in 4 - 5 days using this method some take 7 -10 days. It's all about the correct temperature (usually somewhere in the vacinity of 12-16 degrees depending on honey type) one study suggests that about 14 deg C is optimum if it's too cold the crystals don't grow either..  You have to liquify your honey first to remove all crystals. this can be done at around 35 - 40 degrees. then you can cool the honey back down to 14 degrees and and stir for about 5 min every hour. It is the stirring that breaks the crystals down to an even size which creates creamed honey. I have creamed honey in a Kenwood kitchen baking mixer with a paddle (do not use a wisk)  but it is time consuming and not as good an outcome. If you could keep the bowl at 14 degrees somehow (maybe in a temp controlled fridge or box) and then set a multi timer on the kenwood mixer then you can have it turn on for 5 min every hr and it would take the work out of it. If I was to try doing it again in a Kenwood kitchen mixer I would possible leave it for 100 min then stir for 3 min as in such a small qty it tends to beat some air into it and the cream profile isn't correct (the mixer needs to be set on very slow revolutions per minute). creaming is essentially controlled crystallisation. So as the honey cools down again from melting it and starts to form crystals again you are breaking the crystals to a uniform size that is all that creaming really is. It's actually not that complicateds science wise. In the old days once the honey was down to 15 degrees sometimes a little bit of icing sugar was added to kick off the crystallisation. Some companies use seed or starter honey this is just a way to "kick" the crystallisation process off. it speeds up the process as there are seed crystals for the main bulk of the honey to crystalise off of. once you see "pearling' in your honey you know to watch it carefully because it is usually not long afetr this that the honey can quickly become fully creamed (this can be from 12 - 72 hrs depending on the honey type. There's a lot of variables). Typically the longer you leave your honey creaming the whiter or lighter in colour it can become and will tend to stay softer in your jars. The sooner after the honey is creamed and packed then the honey will have a firmer 'set' in the jars. there's all kinds of reasons etc for having softer or firmer 'set' on creamed honey.  this is a science for someone that is doing it full time like we do but the pricipals are easily applied on a small scale if you have some small gear to do it with e.g. Kenwood mixer and paddle (not wisk) in a temp controlled fridge 14deg C.  Hope this helps everyone. (use at your own risk!)

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Honey granulates most rapidly at about 11degC.  Such honeys as pohutukawa (and rata and some others) have a higher ratio of levulose:dextrose, which means they will crystalise both quickly and with a very small crystal - that is why they are favoured as a starter.  Honey crystals, once formed, can be smashed about physically, resulting in a texture that is more desirable.  I would count the agitation (with cooling) of a traditional 'creaming' process to be more aimed at continuous distribution of the new (fast, small) grains as they form, rather than the physical grinding or smashing about process.  The device for 'grinding' up the honey was invented by Allan Bates, who was living in Taranaki at the time (He also invented the honey packing machine used by many, many beekeepers over the years.  Honey 'ground up' in such a way has never appealed to me, but it took away a lot of the complications and work of the creamed honey method.  NZ beekeepers developed the process of 'creamed honey' (initial heat to destroy any existing crystals, addition of a starter of fine grain, stirring, cooling) back in the 1920s/30s.  An American beekeeping prof, Dr. E.J. Dyce, visited NZ, and then published the results, and claimed a patent on the process.  It was over-turned in 1935 by the (NZ) Honey Control Board that protected NZ bkpr interests - imagine if we had had to pay a royalty to get our honey into the UK since he had the patent!

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