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LauraL

Honey crystalisation

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Hello guys, I'm new here. We are a contracter honey packer, we buy honey from elsewhere and pack into our commercial snap packs. Recently there is a Manuka 10+ supplied to us and the honey was made in 2017. We have found the honey was crystalised and has undissolved sugar in it. Moisture is 19.5% and C4 is 6.7%. We then sent them to be creamed, but the colour looks very strange it was like a bright yellowish and still tastes like chewing sand( the undissolved suger). Anyone knows what's wrong with it? Thanks

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Maybe a high percentage of willow dew in the mix meaning melezitose is also in the honey maybe enough to actually have the feel of sand ?

I dont think that would really account for the bright yellow colour though.

You could send a honey sample to Analytica they would be able to tell you. 

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7 hours ago, LauraL said:

Hello guys, I'm new here. We are a contracter honey packer, we buy honey from elsewhere and pack into our commercial snap packs. Recently there is a Manuka 10+ supplied to us and the honey was made in 2017. We have found the honey was crystalised and has undissolved sugar in it. Moisture is 19.5% and C4 is 6.7%. We then sent them to be creamed, but the colour looks very strange it was like a bright yellowish and still tastes like chewing sand( the undissolved suger). Anyone knows what's wrong with it? Thanks

sounds like the packer didn't heat it up enough to melt all the crystals.

i don't do the packing side, but honey, especially manuka, can crystallise into big crystals. it sort of looks like someone tipped raw sugar into it. it takes a fair bit to melt them back into the honey which is why i suspect they didn't heat it up enough or long enough to melt everything.

no doubt you have seen the test reports for the honey. might want to check with the lab that the test results are for that drum.

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Laura how long have you been in this business?

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15 hours ago, tristan said:

sounds like the packer didn't heat it up enough to melt all the crystals.

i don't do the packing side, but honey, especially manuka, can crystallise into big crystals. it sort of looks like someone tipped raw sugar into it. it takes a fair bit to melt them back into the honey which is why i suspect they didn't heat it up enough or long enough to melt everything.

no doubt you have seen the test reports for the honey. might want to check with the lab that the test results are for that drum.

Thanks for your comments. Yes I have already reteste them waiting the results now.. Supplier provided me the result with a 19.5% moisture and 6.7 C4 which i think they are a bit higher than normal but manuka gives false C4 sugar test which we all know.. so.. just wanting to see some opinions from beekeepers. so thanks

10 hours ago, Alastair said:

Laura how long have you been in this business?

Not long for honey.  we are a  food contract packer, honey just one of our product line. 

21 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Maybe a high percentage of willow dew in the mix meaning melezitose is also in the honey maybe enough to actually have the feel of sand ?

I dont think that would really account for the bright yellow colour though.

You could send a honey sample to Analytica they would be able to tell you. 

I've already sent the samples. Thanks for your comment. :)

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OK well that explains your questions.

 

When you recieved the honey, if it's been in a drum for 2 years, it is completely normal for it to be crystalised, this does not mean it has had sugar added, it's just that honey is a supersaturated solution.

 

So when it is creamed, it has to first be warmed to re melt those crystals, and then have some honey of the correct crystal size added (known as starter), and be held at the correct temperature for three days so all the honey will copy the crystal form of the starter, which is so fine the crystals are undetectable when eating it. If a soft texture is needed it is also stirred through this process.

 

If after being creamed, it still tastes like sand, it wasn't creamed properly, you are either dealing with amatuers, or somebody who followed sloppy procedure.

Edited by Alastair
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On 9/09/2019 at 11:34 AM, LauraL said:

Hello guys, I'm new here. We are a contracter honey packer, we buy honey from elsewhere and pack into our commercial snap packs. 

 

5 hours ago, LauraL said:

Not long for honey.  we are a  food contract packer, honey just one of our product line. 

 

that might explain a bit.

it sounds like you contract out the creaming process and then you pack it.

if thats the case then its unusual and carries increased risk.

typically you cream and pack a the same time. the packing and storing is part of the creaming process.

doing it separably you run the risk of undoing the creaming. 

 

if thats not the case and you contract out all of the creaming and packing, then @Alastair is on to it.

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Now the results come back with a high C4 (10.4%) and moisture (20.3%), which will almost certainly fail. 

 

The results from the supplier was C4(6.7%) and moisture (19.5%). I don't understand why the results are so different. 

 

I'm really confused as we only storage the original drum and pack them into our snaps. The sample I took was directly from the drum of supplier.

It is so weird. 

 

Anyone has further comments? Much appriciated. 

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Once honey has crystalised, there is more water in the remaining liquid. Can't explain the C4, maybe some manuka guru can comment.

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Has the same drum been tested both times ?

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Only other answer is that the sellers results are not for that drum, but another one. I would be referring details to Assure Quality. I think that Frazzledfozzle is probably right about the melezitose, and therefore would have been unlikely to have passed the manuka test anyway.  

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44 minutes ago, LauraL said:

 

 

I'm really confused as we only storage the original drum and pack them into our snaps. The sample I took was directly from the drum of supplier.

It is so weird. 

 

Anyone has further comments? Much appriciated. 

 

Did you do a core sample of the drum ?

 

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3 hours ago, LauraL said:

Now the results come back with a high C4 (10.4%) and moisture (20.3%), which will almost certainly fail. 

 

so what did the honey type come back as ?

thats the more critical thing.

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Regarding the c4 if the screen test is used rather than the full test results can vary by quite a bit. Moisture testing needs to be done on completely liquid honey to get true values. Also honey and retract needs to be at the correct temp for the celebration of the unit. Not uncommon to get moisture readings 1-1.5 % different .

Finally crystallization can be affected by pasteurization if it has not been reseeded.

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