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Sam Bees 21

NZBF Super box frame type?

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Hi there, this may be a silly question but does the frame type i am putting in my full depth super box matter?

I have purchased full frame pre waxed (30g) Plastic Hoffmans and thinking of putting 8 frames in the super.

I don't have many pre drawn frames so any tips on encouraging the super frames drawn out faster would be great, Thank you

 

Sam

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My understanding is that you can put up 8 or 9 in a honey super if they’re pre-drawn. But should use a full 10 if the frames are new. Otherwise you risk funky bridging comb etc due to the large crawl space. Be interested to see if others do different. 

 

I presume you’re just planning ahead, it’s too early for honey supers yet. 

Edited by Josh

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Yeah good point thanks for that i'll run with 10, and any frames are fine to use?

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3 hours ago, Sam Bees 21 said:

Yeah good point thanks for that i'll run with 10, and any frames are fine to use?

 

frame sizes matter.

to wide and you won't fit the last frame and end up with a big gap at the end. or really skinny ones can have the same issue. you want to match the frame size and the box size so its almost completely filled with frames.

keep in mind boxes sizes do vary a bit.

 the really big wide frames are usually only available in 3/4 which of course you don't want in a FD box.

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Great thanks for the info, all 10 fit nice with a little room for play. 

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1 hour ago, Sam Bees 21 said:

Great thanks for the info, all 10 fit nice with a little room for play. 

The important thing to remember is to space the frames. 8 frames in a honey super works, just space them evenly. They will draw the wax out a little bit wider but that will all get sorted when the frames go through an  uncapping knife.

If you don't space them evenly and push them up all tight in the middle you'll get burrr comb on the sides of the box, assuming you get a honey flow. Spaced nicely, no burr comb... in theory.

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Drawn frames are better than new frames but you have to start somewhere. Plastic frames are perhaps more forgiving in that if you get a lot of burr comb you can always just scrape them down. I use wooden frames with wire and foundation and put them on 9 to a box with frames 4 and  6 being drawn combs or preferably old frames with brood being cycled out of the brood nest. I no longer use plastics but when I did I normally drew them in an eight frame box by putting three new frames at position 2, 4, and 6 with the rest being drawn combs.Unless they are really jammed in you need to space however many frames you use evenly across the box leaving a slightly bigger gap on the outside of both outside frames. Eight frames is the normal number of drawn frames for honey boxes but I know one very successful beekeeper who only uses seven. 10 frames can be used but it makes for skinny frames which do not always get uncapped properly by machine.

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49 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The important thing to remember is to space the frames. 8 frames in a honey super works, just space them evenly. They will draw the wax out a little bit wider but that will all get sorted when the frames go through an  uncapping knife.

If you don't space them evenly and push them up all tight in the middle you'll get burrr comb on the sides of the box, assuming you get a honey flow. Spaced nicely, no burr comb... in theory.

 

in practice 8 frames will burr comb between frames which makes a mess of your combs which is no good if you want to use them in a brood box later on. it also increases the weight of honey on each frame, which with standard frames is enough to cause problems with lugs breaking off.

8 frames does collect more honey but that also makes for a massively heavy box. typically only 3/4 boxes get used as 8 framers with the much wider frames that also have wider stronger lugs, and when full they weigh about the same as a FD box of honey.

 if this sounds complicated, your right it is. hence don't bother with 8 frames.

10 frames is good as it get them well drawn out.

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As a 2 hive man who just wants a few bees around and no out of control masses of honey to deal & a spoon & spatula harvesting regime  I use 10 frames jammed up tight with a gap at one side that I keep more or less free of brace comb. Both brood & supers the same. 

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It seems that the laws of physics can be broken by beekeepers. 😜

 

10 is good, 9 is better, 8 is a bit rough.

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For new hobby beeks, we get 35 mm sidebar kitsets, as it means they are a close fit with little room to make mistakes. Some of the plastic frames - some white ones in particular have 31 mm sidebars, and Ecrotek plastic ones are 33 mm, so that can also change the fit of them in a box.

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Thanks for all the great advice, I've gone ahead and put supers on my 4 hives (10 frames each) as the hives were absolutely full and the Manuka is the only thing in flower.

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@Sam Bees 21 it would be worth checking on them after a week. I have put a full box of undrawn frames above an excluder before (because I had no drawn ones) and found they won’t go up. I then took a brood frame that was nearly hatched and put it in the middle and put an undrawn one down in the brood. It might not be best practice but it worked.

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4 hours ago, cBank said:

@Sam Bees 21 it would be worth checking on them after a week. I have put a full box of undrawn frames above an excluder before (because I had no drawn ones) and found they won’t go up. I then took a brood frame that was nearly hatched and put it in the middle and put an undrawn one down in the brood. It might not be best practice but it worked.

It works fine , but you want the bottom box bursting with bees first , looking to expand , or you risk chilling the brood you moved up 

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20 minutes ago, M4tt said:

It works fine , but you want the bottom box bursting with bees first , looking to expand , or you risk chilling the brood you moved up 

not really unless in your in freezing cold land.

bees will run vertically, in fact they tend to prefer it.

the problems come in when its nuc size and its cold. the bees will go up leaving the queen behind.

as long as its a hive and its moderate temp then its no big deal.

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9 hours ago, tristan said:

not really unless in your in freezing cold land.

bees will run vertically, in fact they tend to prefer it.

the problems come in when its nuc size and its cold. the bees will go up leaving the queen behind.

as long as its a hive and its moderate temp then its no big deal.

I’ll rephrase and clarify 

 

There is nothing to gain by splitting the brood nest , or expanding it , until the hive is in growth mode . There is possibly more to lose if you do it too soon 

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10 hours ago, M4tt said:

I’ll rephrase and clarify 

 

There is nothing to gain by splitting the brood nest , or expanding it , until the hive is in growth mode . There is possibly more to lose if you do it too soon 

i think you missed the point.

its not actually splitting the brood, its simply rearranging the shape.

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28 minutes ago, tristan said:

i think you missed the point.

its not actually splitting the brood, its simply rearranging the shape.

Probably 😉.

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