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16 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

Do you think the supermarkets have reduced their margins or that Airbourne is taking the hit .?

didn't they buy quite a bit off some outfit that needed cashflow for something like $3 a kilo?

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Ah yes, "We're going to buy Greenland, and Mexico is going to pay for it"!🤣🤣🤣

It's about time to raise the point again that all the MPI standards and mumbo jumbo may have an effect on the quality of medicinal honey, but have no effect at all on honey taken by mouth.  Certainly,

I'm roaring with laughter and shakin' my head .....  for sure there's a dollar to be made with the bees, somtimes , if you've got the perseverance to stick with it for several generations ..... but gu

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Don't know what Airborne are paying, but i do know of a beekeeper who unloaded for $2.70 a kg, not to Airborne. 

 

Not suggesting anyone do that though, trying to compete on price at the bottom of the market, in any business, is a recipe for eventual bankruptcy. 

 

There would be no reason for the supermarket to take a hit. If they are already getting the honey at a greatly reduced price, what need would there be for them to squeeze their margins.

 

Not sure what normal margins are, but the shops that stock my honey have it on the shelf for not quite double what they pay me for it.

Edited by Alastair
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29 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:


nobody complains about the cost of marmite at $10-$14 kg 

 

If the only alternative is vegemite we just have to put up with it .

I think mono floral honeys could compete with the better quality jam if they are the same price .

 

 

2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Who eats that rotten horrible stuff anyway ?

Me . 

Panic in the house if I run out of coffee or marmite .

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2 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

If the only alternative is vegemite we just have to put up with it .

I think mono floral honeys could compete with the better quality jam if they are the same price .

 

 


whereas for me monofloral honeys are a premium natural product and any kind of jam (that’s essentially a boiled up jar of sugar with added flavour ) comes nowhere close .

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There is a chance the supermarkets are selling below their cost as a loss leading to get people in the door. 

1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

 

 

Me . 

Panic in the house if I run out of coffee or marmite .

Us too.!! I go on strike if the  coffee runs out.  

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22 hours ago, nikki watts said:

There is a chance the supermarkets are selling below their cost as a loss leading to get people in the door. 

Us too.!! I go on strike if the  coffee runs out.  

 

On that note, I think I’ll go to the supermarket! Riley eats an exceptional amount of Marmite! I need coffee before she comes to trash my house and climb on everything turning on light switches as she goes! No where is currently safe...

 

We we have had rain, so day off, about time too. I told himself that getting the poly hives back in the clay track and boxed up before the rain was good management, not lucky this morning! (Image preservation!)

 

Nearly time for a couple of days fishing up the coast, I’ll play count the beehives!

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I send care packages of Marmite to my son in Norway. Norwegians will eat tined  fermented fish which smells worse than a game of pull the finger but think that eating Marmite is sick.He could get English Marmite but says it tastes horrible. My English friend says that English Marmite is much better.

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, tommy dave said:

didn't they buy quite a bit off some outfit that needed cashflow for something like $3 a kilo?

The supermarket does not reduce it's % margin. The $ dollar margin reduces as their buy price reduces. 

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24 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

The supermarket does not reduce it's % margin. The $ dollar margin reduces as their buy price reduces. 

 

so working backward. If the sell price in posts above is $5.99 per 500g then that is 11.98 per kg. excl GST that is $10.42. If hypothetically the supermarket charges 80% markup, (?) then the sell price of the packed honey was probably in the region of $5.79 per kg. So with round off about $2.89 for each 500g container. If we allow about $1 per kg for packing it reduces to around $4.79 per kg in the drum.

Is that roughly how it would have worked? I guess there are some other unknowns such as transport, pasteurization and storage.

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Packaging and labelling a 500 g container, cost to me is around $2. 

 

And I know all the hobbyists will be saying no, I can get a jar for 0.70 cents. But realise a commercial set up has to factor in wages, cost of plant, blah blah, all up, it's 2 bucks.

 

So working backwards from your 80% markup formula, honey on the shelf at $5.99 means they paid $3.30 for it. Which would mean the beekeeper got $1.30 for 500 grams of honey. Course, this rough calculation is indeed rough, and is not factoring in GST, freight, etc..

.

Regardless exactly how we divvy it up, what i do know, is somebody is hurting bad.

Edited by Alastair
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I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant. 

 

And he wasn't talking about Manuka.

 

Think I'll stick to my two hives for now.

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2 minutes ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant. 

 

And he wasn't talking about Manuka.

 

Think I'll stick to my two hives for now.

Don't talk yourself down. You can sell it for $20/kg but you have to do the hard work.I sell all my honey for roughly that price and do not change prices between varieties.I pack in glass containers and people return the containers.My suggestion is do not borrow,do it all out of income.

 

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The national average is now closer to 20 kg per hive and remember that when you have averages some people get more and guess what the rest get.

Those that can - do. Those that can't - teach.

Not sentiments I agree with completely but sometimes you have to wonder.

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43 minutes ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant. 

 

And he wasn't talking about Manuka.

 

Think I'll stick to my two hives for now.

In the years that I make honey , my average is around 22 kg per hive , and they have been fed at least that amount of sugar in syrup per hive to get them through spring and to build up in time for the flow , just so I can pinch the honey off them again and replace with syrup. 
I haven’t fed syrup since the honey price collapsed and as a result the bees have used 100% of their honey to survive a 12 month period . 
Your tutors claim of 80 kg per hive is clearly not from Waikato pasture 

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16 minutes ago, Bron said:

Our top was 56 kg and that was a number of years ago!

Who did all the lifting when it was that much .

I have read about historical very high amounts.

And this was before hiab trucks .

 

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1 hour ago, Bighands said:

Don't talk yourself down. You can sell it for $20/kg but you have to do the hard work.I sell all my honey for roughly that price and do not change prices between varieties.I pack in glass containers and people return the containers.My suggestion is do not borrow,do it all out of income.

 

Good advice re the not borrowing - the number of people who said to me last year that they were going to expand their few hives and "really get into the bees" was a little eye-widening to say to the least, given where the industry was at even right then.   

It depends on what volume of honey you have to package up and sell too I guess - if you have a few hundred kilos each of a few varieties then its not a biggie as you won't have many hives to manage in your working week either. When you have multitudinous tonnes in your shed then that is another thing altogether.   Good on you if you can get around $20 / kg  (glass is sexy but unless its fully recycled NZ glass its just the same as plastic really in terms of 'footprint'  and its a pain to handle, the freight is more and the breakage aspect puts me off anything other than small sturdy jars)   I heard that the weights and measures police were amping up - given the surge in honeys to local market.  Never was there a stone unturned regarding making a buck out of compliance!

Do you refill the containers for them (ie they "own' the container) or do you wash and re-use it entirely as a 'new item'.  I get asked to do a few refills - but only into those handy viscount plastics 2 litre (approx 3kg) buckets as they are nice and easy to manage.   People sort of want to hear a story for honey - but there are so many jars of honey being sold locally now, I suspect our stories must all start to sound similar .... 🤣

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant. 

 

And he wasn't talking about Manuka.

 

Think I'll stick to my two hives for now.

 

So called tutors who talk like that often then say 'boy have I got a deal for you' and sell you 'bargain nucs' at three times the going rate.

Edited by Sailabee
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5 hours ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant.

that tutor should probably be named, or at least the institution - so that people know not to go anywhere near it. Let me guess, the tutor coincidentally had hives to sell to the sucker students, and wasn't a commercial beekeeper?

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6 hours ago, Gwenyn Gwesty said:

I am dumbfounded and confused by all this talk of low prices.

 

Earlier this year my tutor on my course said we will get 50 - 80 kgs of honey per hive and sell it for $20 per kg. Boy, did my fellow students eyes pop out of their heads when they tried to calculate the riches. The tutor actively encouraged us all to go to the bank to borrow heavily and go into business ourselves. I did query the honey prices but he was adamant. 

 

And he wasn't talking about Manuka.

 

Think I'll stick to my two hives for now.

Another reason why we have got over stocking of hives is due to idiots such as this

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I am happy to say I have averaged more than 20 kg per hive every year since I have kept bees in NZ. There were a few bad years and surely the average has dropped a lot than what I used to get. I have always been a hobbyist but have worked for commercial operations. Being a hobbyist I am able to keep a record of mostly everything from all the hives I have. The highest I get from a hive was 176kgs. This was in 2007 or 2008 and the hive had a Carniolan Queen which was bought from daykel apiaries at the time. I have had other hives in the 140 to 160 range a few times but recently it has dropped below 100 for most hives except a few hives which do really well and go over 100 once in a while in exceptional year. Most of my hives are in town or at the boundary of town and country which help where the bees have access to pasture and city gardens. Bees have always been a part of our family as I learned most of the things I know about bees from my dad and just want to keep them going. Never have any intention of going commercial but will always keep a few hives (less than 50) for as long as I can. Family, work and other commitments won’t allow time for any more than that. 
 

I know there are a lot of people who do it for a living and there are a lot of people who have just jumped into it when the market was going good and wants to get out of it now as the market is down,  but I know that people who love bees will always keep it going and will find a way to make it happen. 

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