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yesbut

THE CITRIC ACID THREAD

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There, it's started. As soon as I've used up my stash of oa towels I'll launch into citric.

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I don't think it is citric acid you've been lapping up from your saucer....

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Actually I'll dream up a citric brew for some towels , split my beeyard in half, and run one hive on OA, the other on ?C . !!

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Just make sure to do a sticky board count or mite wash regularly.

 

You certainly are not the first one to have that idea, guess why it never kicked off. But nothing wrong with trying and having emergency treatments ready.

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32 minutes ago, Christi An said:

Just make sure to do a sticky board count or mite wash regularly.

Highly unlikely. I don't like messing around like this. Haven't done it for years.

 

33 minutes ago, Christi An said:

guess why it never kicked off.

Highly variable results......like oxalic  and every other treatment regime ?

I've taken the first step, ordered a pack of acid.

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what are you planning of finding out then?

 

that half of your hives died/survived or whatever?

 

good treatments dont have highly variable results when done properly, thats why they are considered good.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Christi An said:

what are you planning of finding out then?

Whatever happens ! 

 

25 minutes ago, Christi An said:

that half of your hives died/survived or whatever?

Yes !

 

25 minutes ago, Christi An said:

good treatments dont have highly variable results when done properly, thats why they are considered good.

 Is Bayvarol a good treatment ?

@Christi An  No treatment is foolproof. I accept the possibility that mite resistance development to oxalic is possible particularly with my regime of pretty much constant exposure.  I never liked handling formic. Hence the citric. It has been determined to have at least some effect. Credit me with enough nous to search, read, and understand as well as you can please. I have decided to reduce the amount of plastic  I  purchase.  Plastic strips or packaged formic are out.

Unfortunately for my bees  I regard them as ultimately expendable. Although I don't lose many. As long as I have enough flying bees to pollinate my avocado etc I am happy. 

 

 

Edited by yesbut
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Hive Clean (BeeVital) 

INGREDIENTS: water, saccharose, citric acid, oxalix acid, formic acid, propolis extract, div. essential oils

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Crikey ..... reads like a real good laxative,  that's for sure Paddy.

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There is also citric acid in their newer product " Varromed" as additional ingredient where also oxalic and formic are main ingredients. To mention it can be used all the year even in organic beekeeping - during the flow.. Now I sound as advertisement, I must call them to give me some money for ... 🤑

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Posted (edited)

My  citric has arrived. Because the stuff is considerably less potent than oxalic  I know that in order for a towel brew to work there'll have to be heaps of active ingredient in the glycerine. First thing I've discovered is that citric is less soluble in G than is oxalic. It took 120 gm of G to nearly dissolve 100gm of C at approaching 100deg. So clearly CG brew won't work. 

I now plan on dusting a significant amount of C directly into the top of the boxes.

Edited by yesbut
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@yesbut, why dont you try formulating something based on the list of ingredients supplied by @Goran?

Have you found the study done by someone in Israel (i think) on lemon juice. From memory it had some effectiveness but was pretty harsh on the open bee-brood.

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14 minutes ago, Mummzie said:

@yesbut, why dont you try formulating something based on the list of ingredients supplied by @Goran?

'cos I'm in a citric groove baby

16 minutes ago, Mummzie said:

Have you found the study done by someone in Israel (i think) on lemon juice. From memory it had some effectiveness but was pretty harsh on the open bee-brood.

I glossed over it. Lemon juice just doesn't do it for me.

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38 minutes ago, yesbut said:

'cos I'm in a citric groove baby

I glossed over it. Lemon juice just doesn't do it for me.

sorry to have assumed that because Gorans list of ingredients included citric acid , that you might have been interested. And that lemon juice, being citric was relevant.

I will just crawl back under my rock.

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On 26/08/2019 at 10:29 AM, yesbut said:

I accept the possibility that mite resistance development to oxalic is possible particularly with my regime of pretty much constant exposure.  I never liked handling formic. Hence the citric. It has been determined to have at least some effect. 

 

To my knowledge, no-one knows the mode of action of the organic acids.

 

My concern is that as they are all organic acids (formic, oxalic, citric, acetic), they may all have the same mode of action. So while BKs alternate between say formic and oxalic (with maybe citric thrown in) they're still hitting the same nail but just with different sized hammers. If resistance is going to develop it'll more likely be against one of the weaker acids and then we'll loose the use of the stronger acids.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ahol said:

My concern is that as they are all organic acids (formic, oxalic, citric, acetic), they may all have the same mode of action

Interestingly enough acetic is apparently quite toxic to bees .  I'm not doing anything with citric until February. 

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When mention these acids, some use lactic acid ( spraying bees on the frames),  but labor intensive..

Formic acid ( 60%) some used before in powder, even one old beek at one lecture encouraged us to try it.. Somehow, not fit to my routine, too touchy.. Also when mentioned that it kill some of brood..

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Could you dissolve the citric acid powder in a small amount of water in a measuring jug, add the solution to the glycerine and then sit it beside a dehumifier to reduce the moisture content once again -or would that time lost mean the mix loses efficacy?

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I'm no chemist. I just doubt that because it's so weak it's not possible to get enough citric acid into a glycerine base staple to be any where near effective. 

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