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manz

Stolen hives

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1 hour ago, manz said:

I can finally give an update to our stolen hives. After about 6 weeks of camera surveillance and identifying the thief the police were able to catch him at his home in his "honey shed". He had eventually stolen 80 hives in total but we were only able to recover 30 empty boxes and some lids. He had a nice little set up where he was fibreglassing over our branded number, repainting then painting a new Reg number on. He confessed to some sites but not the ones we had him on camera so he was caught every way. He pleaded guilty (no choice really) and was finally sentenced yesterday. We submitted a full list of what we lost including predicted income from pollination then honey crop. SOOO this is what he got.....4 months Home Detention,  9 months supervision,  and was ordered to repay $15000 to us at $150 per week. Because I've been busy extracting I couldn't go to the court but wish I had just to hear what he had to say, I'm so angry and disappointed with the system. And as well I advised both Asure Quality and MPI of the reg no. of the recipient of the hives but I don't think anything was done.  I'll be following up on that as soon as I have a break. At least we can move on now but we've learnt a bit on the way.

if he's convicted without name suppression then you can name him publicly, e.g. here.

that's a big thing. Do it so we all know the identity of this piece of dirt. Even better if you can link to an article or court document already publicly available.

34 minutes ago, john berry said:

Name and shame

people get really upset about this...

as an example, here's a commercial diver (star of spiky gold hunters on tvnz on demand - worth a watch) who is also a convicted fisheries criminal still operating in the fishery he was poaching in: https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/diver-convicted

some get upset that his history follows him...

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If he has home detention, he cannot legally work his hives, so get the wider network of beeks and all and sundry out looking for apiaries with his number on, the police should have photos of the apiaries they did find which will give you a headsup of the colours he was using to further aid the search. and report them all to directly Clifton King or Marco, I am certain they will follow up, and you will be able to identify yours out of the haul. 

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I think you need to find out about that fine, particularly if it was handed down by the courts.  If he doesn't pay it, do the court debtor collectors follow him up.  If they follow him up, is there interest added to this fine.  If interest is added to this fine, then it could quickly accure.

 

I had an incident with a shonky tradesman.  He didn't steal my property, but did a horrendous job.  I could have taken him to the district court, but because there were no district court sittings in ChCh the backlog became 3-5 years of cases.  So, I decided I wanted some money of the guy and to get on with my life, I took him to the Disputes Tribunal.  At that time $17,000 was the max I could go him for, so that's what I did.  I was awarded $17,000 at the first sitting.  The defendent challenged with another hearing.  I was still awarded the $17,000.  Because I was awarded $17,000 on the first go I was entitled to interest on the $17,000.  After months he never paid.

 

Fortunately for me, the guy owned his own house.  I got hold of all these details, and to save time went and had a one off appointment with a lawyer who applied to the district court slapping a caveat on his property that if he sold I was to be paid out, the lawyer also got an injunction stating that if I wasn't paid out within a certain time frame, I could force the sale of the house.  Guess what, next time the court baliff visited him, the money started appearing in my bank account.  By this time there was $3000 of interest owing to me, and because I had won the two sittings of the Disputes Tribunal, and the property caveat, the court awarded me my $900 legal fee.

 

Everybody previously had told me that the Disputes Tribunal was useless and very rarely awarded their top fine of $17,000  but I got it, plus $3000 interest, plus $900 lawyer fees.  I got it by having lots of photos of "workmanship", every time I had contacted the guy and he came to "fix the job" it was recorded.  Every time I rang him, I would ring on my landline to his mobile and this showed up on my phone account.  I managed to get hold of a couple of reputable tradesmen who supplied their own reports.  The guy kept blaming workmanship on earthquakes, so I had to wait two years before EQC could assess and provide a report. I took a week off bees, when there was a lull between queens and honey flow and I compiled a huge dossier.   

 

Generally with the Disputes Tribunal there is a time frame from the time of the incident that you must file your complaint, but because so much in the way of services came to a halt, they made an exception under some ruling due to exceptional circumstances. The other thing was that they told me there was a 3 month waiting list for hearings, yet I filed on their last day of business for the year, and guess whose hearing came up in the first sitting of the New Year.  I was stunned, then the first question at the hearing to me was, why hasn't this gone to the district court, if winning you would be awarded substantively more, and I thought to myself crikey I think I am going to win this!

 

I did all this through my shear determination without any legal training.  I had two 5 minute appointments, cos you are only allowed 5 minute appointments, at the legal clinic of Citizens Advice Bureau.  I rocked up with my questions, and they would talk the whole 5 mins and I wrote down everything they said and they assured me I was in the right and that I would win.  In the end I went to a lawyer to get my name put on the defendants title of property, because by then this saga had taken years, and I couldn't work out which was the appropriate form on the internet that I had to complete!

 

Because lawyers are so expensive, it was not worth me employing a lawyer, cos it their fee would have taken everything I was awarded.  

 

So if this hive thief has property, you might get your hive money back.  Very best of luck, and please keep us posted. Apologies for posting such a long report and I hope everyone hasn't gone to sleep, but there might be hope for you at the end of the tunnel.

 

Also, maybe follow thru some of the suggestions for shaming in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

To find out if they own a property, some district councils you can contact to find out who owns a particular property.  If they won't do this cos of the Privacy Act, then visit your nearest Lands & Deeds office which I did.  I had to sign to view the Deed, and they gave me a photocopy.  

Another thing, once a caveat is put on a property by the court, the owner has to apply to the court to get it removed.  This guy is entitled to do so, cos his debts are now cleared, but he hasn't.  He is still sitting in the house with my name on his title.  How silly is that, I could drop dead at anytime.  

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing I did.  In the end, cos he wasn't rocking up to fix the issue when he said he would, I sent him a couple of letters using NZ CourierPost track and trace, signature required! 

Edited by Maggie James
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you bloody right-wingers its not his fault that he does crime. hes most likely a victim of this tough society,    

He needs hugs and cuddles not punishment 

😂🤣

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8 minutes ago, nab said:

ou bloody right-wingers its not his fault that he does crime. hes most likely a victim of this tough society,    

He needs hugs and cuddles not punishment 

You have an appropriate moniker for a thread on legalities and theft!

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Manz does this guy have name suppression? If not it's free shooting.

 

Having had hives of my own stolen I feel VERY STRONGLY about these sort of people, they are a cancer among us. Not just for the loss they cause, but worry, and the fact the beekeeper will be too scared to use that site any more.

 

You may be a nice guy who does not want to publish his details but i sure will. My email is in my profile, send me his reg number, name, and photo, and I'll create a Loosers Thread, with all his details in it. The thread could be updated as other lowlifes are discovered. Heck, the threat of exposure may even prevent some thefts before they happen.

 

Why should this type of cancer be allowed to continue in our industry, with people not even knowing who they are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Manz does this guy have name suppression? If not it's free shooting.

 

Having had hives of my own stolen I feel VERY STRONGLY about these sort of people, they are a cancer among us. Not just for the loss they cause, but worry, and the fact the beekeeper will be too scared to use that site any more.

 

You may be a nice guy who does not want to publish his details but i sure will. My email is in my profile, send me his reg number, name, and photo, and I'll create a Loosers Thread, with all his details in it. The thread could be updated as other lowlifes are discovered. Heck, the threat of exposure may even prevent some thefts before they happen.

 

Why should this type of cancer be allowed to continue in our industry, with people not even knowing who they are.

 

 

 

Just a word of warning folks.

If you are going to name and shame then you need to be very careful as @Grant is very wary of the possibility of court action against the Forum.

I would suggest that it may be better to name and shame on Facebook as you can get away with a lot more.

 

Be warned.

 

Thanks.

Trev

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If the guy has been convicted in court and it is publicly available information there will be no legal issues.

 

Facebook? Yeah nah. Posts appear then fade away into cyberspace. There should be a sticky thread here of convicted criminals who are a danger to other beekeepers, so it can be referenced for informational purposes, by people considering doing business with certain people. It needs to be up for more than a week.

 

However out of respect for the site, if I do get any info sent to me i will submit a proposed thread to a moderator for vetting before posting anything.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Alastair said:

If the guy has been convicted in court and it is publicly available information there will be no legal issues.

 

Facebook? Yeah nah. Posts appear then fade away into cyberspace. There should be a sticky thread here of convicted criminals who are a danger to other beekeepers, so it can be referenced for informational purposes, by people considering doing business with certain people. It needs to be up for more than a week.

 

However out of respect for the site, if I do get any info sent to me i will submit a proposed thread to a moderator for vetting before posting anything.

 

 

 

The alternative could be an article in a newspaper with the link put in the type of thread you have described Alastair, which will be added to over time with the next crop of drop-kicks.

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Well if somebody can link me the article about this or any other convicted thief, I'll work with a moderator towards creating a thread to help people know who they are dealing with.

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I've had a look around Google for Whakatane District Court news but found nothing.

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

I've had a look around Google for Whakatane District Court news but found nothing.

Try looking for "The Beacon", that is the local rag

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I'm just waiting till next week to talk to the court guy before I release his name or photo. He's on holiday and I want something in writing before I say anything I'm not supposed to.  And it hasn't been reported in The Beacon newspaper yet. @Sailabee he doesn't have his own hives - he was supplying his cousin (or some other family member) we think,  that's why I alerted MPI and Asure Quality because apparently the guy only had 5 hives recorded so where did  our 80 go ???

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6 hours ago, Alastair said:

If the guy has been convicted in court and it is publicly available information there will be no legal issues.

 

Facebook? Yeah nah. Posts appear then fade away into cyberspace. There should be a sticky thread here of convicted criminals who are a danger to other beekeepers, so it can be referenced for informational purposes, by people considering doing business with certain people. It needs to be up for more than a week.

 

However out of respect for the site, if I do get any info sent to me i will submit a proposed thread to a moderator for vetting before posting anything.

 

 

 

I understand @Alastair I am not saying it cannot be posted.  But we all know that some threads get a bit emotional (understably) and then unproven statements are sometimes made.  I am just saying, Please be mindful of what is being said and keep the language at the standard that we demand on this site.

 

Thanks.  You have my support (personally)

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Of course Trevor. One solution would be to have a thread where comments were not allowed, just a list of refrences to newsclips about various offenders. So a reader could quickly browse a list of dodgy people, without having to chew through a whole lot of comments.

 

Don't know if it could be done but could a thread be made that can only be commented on by one moderator? Then people could submit info to that moderator, and the moderator would decide wether or not to post it, and in what format.

 

@Grant  Can you answer this

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

a list of refrences to newsclips

 

Wouldn't this go under Bees in the Media.  If people just supplied the URL

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@Alastair I added a tag for @grant to get his response on this.

Sorry, I appear to be the only moderator operating these days.  And I certainly don't have all the answers or authority.

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20 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

@Alastair I added a tag for @grant to get his response on this.

Sorry, I appear to be the only moderator operating these days.  And I certainly don't have all the answers or authority.

You didn't ask a question though, you were making a statement, so nothing to respond to.

21 hours ago, Alastair said:

Don't know if it could be done but could a thread be made that can only be commented on by one moderator? Then people could submit info to that moderator, and the moderator would decide wether or not to post it, and in what format.

 

Document/link repository on bees in media downloads would be the place. Comments allowed but no biggy if they get locked off.

 

https://www.nzbees.net/files/category/12-bees-in-the-media/

 

 

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Yeah id bee interested to know his name,i have hives around the district and have had a few pinched....id love to know of any crooks round here

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honey stealing also happening, 260-300 boxes manuka stolen two days ago central plateau area, honey boxes and lids taken, be on the look out folks.

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That would have to be a commercial beekeeper, or in cahoots with one. 😳

 

Wonder why take the lids though. Probably amateurs doing someone elses dirty work.

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46 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Wonder why take the lids though. Probably amateurs doing someone elses dirty work

 

well we are supposed to keep honey covered when transporting @Alistair

 

If they ever get caught we should be allowed to feed these bass - t#rds  on a little piece of soft metal 

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On 4/02/2020 at 9:16 PM, Alastair said:

That would have to be a commercial beekeeper, or in cahoots with one. 😳

 

Wonder why take the lids though. Probably amateurs doing someone elses dirty work.

i would say its most likely an inside job or an ex worker.

unless the sites where exposed to the road.

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On 4/02/2020 at 8:29 PM, Dennis Crowley said:

honey stealing also happening, 260-300 boxes manuka stolen two days ago central plateau area, honey boxes and lids taken, be on the look out folks.

I would be extremely surprised if a few boxes of mine were taken....

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