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Mobile extraction

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Posted (edited)

To carry in the thread I slightly hijacked in OA/GL...

 

@Sailabee, you mention the use of heat. The setup I saw didn’t use any heating - it was extracted close to the source while the honey was still warm. 

This would probably limit apiary sites judging by some of the photos here.

Edited by cBank
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Posted (edited)

I don't know the details of the RMP setups, but I think an NP1 would be hard to formulate without the use of some final hot water washdown. The stationary ones I have seen have used gas to reduce the electrical draw down, and there are vagaries in moving gas around the country in large cylinders.

Edited by Sailabee
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IMO one needs to look at extraction system types other than the norm.

An example is the Revolutionary type where the Honey is scraped on site then further processed at a second  RMP site. 

The benefits of this system are numerous.
beeks will usually point to Robbing being a limiting factor in this system but that is manageable by using novel new ways of sealing the system.

The advent of plastic frames has further added to this systems viability.

Whats more on site extraction  substantially  aids the battle against AFB.

Its a no brainier and an open source design effort would nail it in 12 months. 

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Mmmm how would a motorhome converted into an extraction room fare? Dont they have all the required facilities needed and licences ie gas,hot water etc?

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1 hour ago, Phil46 said:

Mmmm how would a motorhome converted into an extraction room fare? Dont they have all the required facilities needed and licences ie gas,hot water etc?

Its probably doable but its an expensive exercise that only adds to total existing infrastructure.

There are countless other considerations like materials handling and storage etc

Water and discharge rights are probably a major considerations also.
I envisage a system where boxes are placed on a device that reaches up and drags / scraps the honey and comb into a large sealed slurry tank.
Or alternatively and initially an operator within a bee proof cab is fed with full boxes that he uses a device to scrap each frame separately.
the empty box is passed on through a seal to be placed back on the hive of origin.
The slurry tank is taken to a wax separator for processing.
Wax production goes up and Honey production goes down a little which probably isnt a bad thing 

 

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I know an excellent long-term beekeeper who was an early adopter, and bought one of the revolutionary gizmos, and loves it, but this only removes the comb and wax off the frames into bucket which then need to go to an extraction plant to process. as I see it, one of the main advantages of the system is that of disease control - the beekeepers boxes and frames stay on the correct hive, and as there is going to be an increasing risk in bigger plants with different beekeepers supers sitting in hot rooms, and post extraction in storage until picked up, and possibly exchanging all sorts of greebies especially in the changed estate of the industry. The downside if one could call it that is that bees have to draw out new foundation every time a frame is extracted, so not same economy of energy. Right now when wax is fetching a high price there must be added value in the increased wax produced - perhaps balancing out the lower honey production.

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

I know an excellent long-term beekeeper who was an early adopter, and bought one of the revolutionary gizmos, and loves it, but this only removes the comb and wax off the frames into bucket which then need to go to an extraction plant to process. as I see it, one of the main advantages of the system is that of disease control - the beekeepers boxes and frames stay on the correct hive, and as there is going to be an increasing risk in bigger plants with different beekeepers supers sitting in hot rooms, and post extraction in storage until picked up, and possibly exchanging all sorts of greebies especially in the changed estate of the industry. The downside if one could call it that is that bees have to draw out new foundation every time a frame is extracted, so not same economy of energy. Right now when wax is fetching a high price there must be added value in the increased wax produced - perhaps balancing out the lower honey production.

In theory , I am a fan of extracting the Revolutionary way , although they may not want new customers . I’m not sure . They are hard to contact , which is more than likely a sign of the times .

I like the idea of continually having fresh comb , in the brood area . That would require moving older frames up to the honey box to fill for extraction , which is what we already do . 

Yes, there would be less honey produced which also brings some positives . Shortage of supply being one 

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2 hours ago, Sailabee said:

I know an excellent long-term beekeeper who was an early adopter, and bought one of the revolutionary gizmos, and loves it, but this only removes the comb and wax off the frames into bucket which then need to go to an extraction plant to process. as I see it, one of the main advantages of the system is that of disease control - the beekeepers boxes and frames stay on the correct hive, and as there is going to be an increasing risk in bigger plants with different beekeepers supers sitting in hot rooms, and post extraction in storage until picked up, and possibly exchanging all sorts of greebies especially in the changed estate of the industry. The downside if one could call it that is that bees have to draw out new foundation every time a frame is extracted, so not same economy of energy. Right now when wax is fetching a high price there must be added value in the increased wax produced - perhaps balancing out the lower honey production.

Lol

Try loading 1000- 10000 boxes onto a truck in the field transporting them to town then transporting those boxes back out to the sites 

Thats without even attempting to get a box back onto the same site or Hive.
The two main advantages are in logistics cost saving and disease control.

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Originally for the first year, you could buy the revolutionary unit, but then you could only lease, and a condition was that the owners extraction plant had to  be used for the further processing, so that meant that most were faced with a considerable distance to cart the pails anyway, and I heard a take it or leave it price paid for the honey. About then the company seemed to become more difficult to contact as few found that suitable.

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Its a no brainier and an open source design effort would nail it in 12 months

 

@Philbee your next project perhaps 😁

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46 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Its a no brainier and an open source design effort would nail it in 12 months

 

@Philbee your next project perhaps 😁

ive been on it for a while 

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Revolutionary have what  I have been told a really tight patent which they guard very carefully, so would need a real point of difference to negate the need to spend time and money arguing.

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

Revolutionary have what  I have been told a really tight patent which they guard very carefully, so would need a real point of difference to negate the need to spend time and money arguing.

Lol

 

I should clarify this

The term revolutionary in my text is intended to convey the concept of extraction Honey on or in the vicinity of an Apiary or Apiaries.

It is not intended to infer an intent to use a device such as the one developed by  Revolutionary Beekeeping.

There are many ways to achieve most goals 

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Robbing is mostly a problem if there is no flow on .

A mobile unit could extract toward the end of a flow but while the bees were still busy .

 

 

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23 hours ago, Sailabee said:

Revolutionary have what  I have been told a really tight patent which they guard very carefully, so would need a real point of difference to negate the need to spend time and money arguing.

I like revolutionary system, but they not the first to scrape honey off the frames, their system may be under patent but not the concept.

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What about a system that passes the frame between two rollers, ie the honey gets squashed out rather than scraped off, leaving the bulk of the wax still attached, or sort of, to the frame ? More wax left for the bees to re-use , cleaner honey for further processing....

In fact Granny's ancient washing hand wringer's rubber rollers could easily be shaped to fit the woodwork. Stainless laundry tub with timber stiffener to take the wringer clamps.

Change the sprung  rotating handle on top to a quick acting cam action....Bob's yr uncle. I can  smell the Rickett's Blue already !

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On 30/07/2019 at 4:52 PM, Dennis Crowley said:

I like revolutionary system, but they not the first to scrape honey off the frames, their system may be under patent but not the concept.

correct. there was people using scrapping machines a long time before revolutionary setup.  the thing revolutionary did was to do it direct into a pail.

On 30/07/2019 at 5:02 PM, yesbut said:

What about a system that passes the frame between two rollers, ie the honey gets squashed out rather than scraped off,

unfortunately thats about the worse thing you can do to a frame. something you avoid doing during extraction. the flatten comb often gets sealed up and then ignored.

its better to mush it all up, but then your breaking the comb right down at the bottom and not leaving much comb behind.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, tristan said:

correct. there was people using scrapping machines a long time before revolutionary setup.  the thing revolutionary did was to do it direct into a pail.

unfortunately thats about the worse thing you can do to a frame. something you avoid doing during extraction. the flatten comb often gets sealed up and then ignored.

its better to mush it all up, but then your breaking the comb right down at the bottom and not leaving much comb behind.

I can understand them avoiding patches, but if an entire frame is flattened......maybe........??  If I remember I'll try a couple. I'l modify the family rolling pin....or maybe use a wallpaper roller...might be safer..

Edited by yesbut

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I imagine once it is flattened they wouldn’t reuse it but would probably build afresh on top of it - so over time you would have a very thick base to the frame and decreasing room between frames to actually draw new cells?

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2 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

I imagine once it is flattened they wouldn’t reuse it but would probably build afresh on top of it - so over time you would have a very thick base to the frame and decreasing room between frames to actually draw new cells?

from what i've seen is they tend to proplise it and leave it.

i wonder if its because it acts like a thick chunk of wax or burr comb.

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