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jamesc

1080

RISK OF CLOSURE

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2 hours ago, Alastair said:

The problem Chris is that for Rata it would be terminal. There are plenty of other things possums can eat, but Rata is pretty much their favourite. So when there isn't much Rata left, if population is uncontrolled, they will eat other things and population can continue to grow. But in such circumstance, any rata leaf pops it's head out, there will be a nearby possum that will eat it.

 

Your theory migh work if they ate all things equally, but they don't.

Constant predation will completely change the nature of the forest.

Our bush evolved with limited herbaceous browsers. 

I do wonder what changes occured after the moa died out .

With no control of pests our broadleaf plants would be under big pressure .

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Yes i read an interesting article speculating how our bush would have been before humans arrived and killed all the moa. They thought it would have been more open and probably a different plant balance.

 

For this reason i don't think deer are quite as bad as possums, because the deer eat at ground level pretty much like the moas did. Deer are probably more aggressive eaters because they have teeth and can bite and chew, where moas were just leaf pluckers. Other thing, moas had a predator, being the biggest eagle in the world so there was a balance. Unlike with deer. The eagle died out along with the moa. But possums are a different ball game they are up in the trees where before humans there were no major herbivores up there.

 

An interesting aside, the NZ eagle would have been very capable of capturing a human child or even a small adult. It is highly likely this would have happened, I am surprised there are no legends or stories about it. 

Edited by Alastair
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@Alastair

 I did suggest once at a rather heated 1080 debate that  we could introduce the possums natural predators .

Wedgetail eagles , scrub pythons , dingos etc .

It would remove the need for poison drops .

Sometimes I think this whole predator free , recreate historical NZ is a waste of resourses and energy.

there are bigger problems needing our attention , like an ocean of plastic.

We just need a balanced  polllution free enviroment , the mix is not that important .

 

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Little barrier has no browsers of any kind and I was quite surprised just how open most of the forest floor is. With a totally intact canopy there's not that much light getting through and most of the island is easier to get through than anywhere I go hunting on the mainland.

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Red Deer will stand on their back legs to reach high to graze on griselinia , the trees can be bare of leaves to over head height in the red deer wintering areas.

But I’m sure it was no different for the Moa. 

 

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35 minutes ago, john berry said:

Little barrier has no browsers of any kind and I was quite surprised just how open most of the forest floor is. With a totally intact canopy there's not that much light getting through and most of the island is easier to get through than anywhere I go hunting on the mainland.

In the 40 yrs I  have been here I have noticed that it is much easier now . to move through the bush .

Large areas of what was impenetrable scrub has opened out underneath as the canopy has grown up and shaded the understory.

29 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Red Deer will stand on their back legs to reach high to graze on griselinia , the trees can be bare of leaves to over head height in the red deer wintering areas.

But I’m sure it was no different for the Moa. 

 

Monkey puzzles were around with dinosaurs.

Thats what trees turned into when they are browsed by dinosaurs .

 

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

@Alastair

 I did suggest once at a rather heated 1080 debate that  we could introduce the possums natural predators .

Wedgetail eagles , scrub pythons , dingos etc .

It would remove the need for poison drops .

Sometimes I think this whole predator free , recreate historical NZ is a waste of resourses and energy.

there are bigger problems needing our attention , like an ocean of plastic.

We just need a balanced  polllution free enviroment , the mix is not that important .

 

brilliant idea...

 

how do we tell those predators that they are only to eat possums and stouts and none of the native wildlive?

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Everyone has an opinion, everyone has an agenda. Everyone has their own reason for being for or against, though sometimes the great unwashed jump on the bandwagon, generally against, because that's what their friends said. Such is these modern times , and not being able to think for ourselves and draw our own conclusions. To look at the facts, or fiction, the pros and cons and most importantly, the alternatives.

 

1080 is by no means perfect. But it's all we got. 20 years ago it was said we would have a wonder drug that will make the beasties infertile. Problem solved. Here and now it hasn't happened. We live and learn, and the way 1080 is delivered now is so far different from the dark old days. 1080 breaks down very quickly in water, but takes longer in an animal hence the stand down period for safety's sake. Hunters want to hunt and that's fine. By all accounts there are big mammals out there, rip into it people, go on an adventure.

 

The possums however, are one heck of a nuisance and chew through vast tonnages of organic matter daily that our forests just can not cope with. They rip out a big part of the food chain that is very difficult for our flora and fauna to adjust to. To target possums and not deer, that's a wee bit harder. Ground bait stations are easy, though none of my anti1080 friends will get out there and do it. And the vast rugged mountain tracts of land that are inaccessible to human feet but possums just thrive on... helicopters are the only way. There will be collateral damage, there always is. But the bigger picture is a win for our suffering native species.

 

And that's what counts.

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1 hour ago, Stoney said:

Red Deer will stand on their back legs to reach high to graze on griselinia , the trees can be bare of leaves to over head height in the red deer wintering areas.

But I’m sure it was no different for the Moa. 

 

 

Good point Stoney. Baby Kauri have a brown, tough leaf, until they get past 3 meters tall then they grow normal leaves above that, and several other natives have a similar strategy. So my guess is that moa were a problem to them up to 3 meters.

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3 hours ago, Christi An said:

brilliant idea...

 

how do we tell those predators that they are only to eat possums and stouts and none of the native wildlive?

I was being facetious , I was just getting exasperated at the meeting .

There is no way a predator would not wipe out all our native fauna .

Some , like tuis , will survive but I sometimes think we should have a few islands of original fauna and a few fenced areas and stop trying to save the rest .

 

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Under the slogan Predator Free 2050, more and more areas are being cleared of pests, protected, and becoming a safe haven for species otherwise threatened with extinction.

 

In my view we cannot have too many of these areas.

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3 hours ago, Alastair said:

Under the slogan Predator Free 2050, more and more areas are being cleared of pests, protected, and becoming a safe haven for species otherwise threatened with extinction.

 

In my view we cannot have too many of these areas.

A friend is currently spending $160, 000 on a predator fence along the back of a coastal peninsula to make a protected habitat for endangered sea birds .

I think all the money to be spent in trying to make NZ predator free should be channeled into protecting these manageable sized areas .

Edited by kaihoka
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Hmmm ..... I just got a quote to fence in the predators. 

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5 hours ago, jamesc said:

Hmmm ..... I just got a quote to fence in the predators. 

was it as big  ?

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19 hours ago, kaihoka said:

In the 40 yrs I  have been here I have noticed that it is much easier now . to move through the bush .

Large areas of what was impenetrable scrub has opened out underneath as the canopy has grown up and shaded the understory.

Don't forget the goats....

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2 hours ago, kaihoka said:

was it as big  ?

290k

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1 hour ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

What size area is that for.

The area is about 700 ha. Rough hill country that grazes cows at the moment.

We live in a gilded cage here. It's stunningly beautifull but has a real low stocking rate, so by the time we have paid the rates, weed control, stockman and all the rest, not a lot drop's out the bottom. Less than not a lot to be honest. 

And those who live on the outside love coming here ..... so it has potential through a different form of farming.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

290k

 

29 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The area is about 700 ha.

Hmmm...about $28 a metre....what sort of fence ? 

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13 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

Hmmm...about $28 a metre....what sort of fence ? 

Deer....

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So the trick will be to enclose some decent genetics to start with...

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13 minutes ago, yesbut said:

So the trick will be to enclose some decent genetics to start with...

Uh huh....

5E233F05-E663-44C1-B94A-92095CEAF511.jpeg

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5 hours ago, yesbut said:

Don't forget the goats....

In this case it is not goats .

There are goats but mostly on the other side of the muddy .

I hassle DOC about dealing to them all the time .

All the people who used to shoot them are getting old .

Most people who live here now are on the pension .

1 hour ago, yesbut said:

 

Hmmm...about $28 a metre....what sort of fence ? 

My friends fence is about 200 mtrs .

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