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RISK OF CLOSURE

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9 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

But the reality is that possums and Wallabies are in Australia and they do not seem to have wiped out all forests.

There isn't any claim that Possums are wiping out our forests, just some species, like for example  Rata.

Edited by yesbut
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Correct.

 

In NZ, possums have no natural enemy, other than humans if we do pest control. Apart from pest control programs there is just one thing that limits their population. Food supply.

 

So, they start with their favourites, one of those is Rata. Once they have eliminated all the Rata in a forest, they move down the menu, one or two species at a time.

 

Allow this process to continue undisturbed and yes, we will look like Australia.

 

The beekeepers who complain that 1080 hurt their business, might do well to take a more balanced view, and consider the benefits they have had from continued Rata harvests, or revived ones, which improve year by year after a 1080 drop.

Edited by Alastair
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1 hour ago, ChrisM said:

ABut the reality is that possums and Wallabies are in Australia and they do not seem to have wiped out all forests.

Yes but the big difference is that the native bush there evolved strategies to deal with animal herbivores. NZ plants evolved with moas as the large herbivore and are relatively defenceless compared to australian plants.

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Correct.

 

In NZ, possums have no natural enemy, other than humans if we do pest control. Apart from pest control programs there is just one thing that limits their population. Food supply.

 

So, they start with their favourites, one of those is Rata. Once they have eliminated all the Rata in a forest, they move down the menu, one or two species at a time.

 

Allow this process to continue undisturbed and yes, we will look like Australia.

 

The beekeepers who complain that 1080 hurt their business, might do well to take a more balanced view, and consider the benefits they have had from continued Rata harvests, or revived ones, which improve year by year after a 1080 drop.

The Rata would still be here even with possum prefered diet. We have not seen an increase of yields due to elimination of possums.Just some Rata flowerings are better than others.The last one we had a drought, 4 weeks no rain and the bees did not follow it all the way to the top of the hill. Also it was flowering in mid January,normally unheard of.

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Talking of opossums... Hardly see a dead one on our local roads. More , Pukes and ducks.We used to spot light up side roads. Shoot a fair few.  

Us human rabbits have spread and the possum seems to have been moved on. 

Really, humans are top of the food chain pests. 

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2 hours ago, Bighands said:

The Rata would still be here even with possum prefered diet. We have not seen an increase of yields due to elimination of possums.Just some Rata flowerings are better than others.The last one we had a drought, 4 weeks no rain and the bees did not follow it all the way to the top of the hill. Also it was flowering in mid January,normally unheard of.

 

Good theory Roy but if possums were uncontrolled the eventual outcome would be that Rata would be extinct. Heck, 50% of NZ bird species are already extinct, extinctions happen. Some of those birds were beautiful, and unique.

 

Your bees would have been exposed to more Rata than if possums were not controlled, just, you missed it in the noise of seasonal variations.

 

Here's an interesting short video  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bighands said:

The Rata would still be here even with possum prefered diet.

On what evidence do you base that statement??  When possum numbers were through the roof 30 years ago the number of huge dead trees would tend to suggest if left to their devices possums would have completely decimated all NZ native bush.

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The southern Ruahine  mountains were once rata /Cedar forests. They were a memory before I was born due to possums and all that is left are a few lonely skeletons on the skyline. 35 years ago  when I was working on the Coromandel possums arrived and within a very short time the rata started to die. Even plants like rewarewa can and will be killed when numbers are high enough.

I agree that there are too many people in the world and we are probably the worst predator. There are also way too many beekeepers.

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Kawau Island is a prime example of just what can be achieved with baiting - in that case wallabies and possum. When I started sailing, whole island was brown - dead and dying trees, all native and then the non latte lot started fencing their weekend properties 2 metres high with wire netting, and as the walkways had always provided access to all the private properties they crossed, so the yachtie lot put in gates with weights and pulleys so they automatically closed. Of those that were longterm residents without the means, the townies subsidised the missing bits. Within five years, island was lush green. Best bit was when DOC captured some of the wallabies and sold them back to the Aussies - bonus!

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I remember that, i too had a boat then. And that at the time some local resident / s had taken it upon themselves to run an unauthorised wallaby poisoning campaign. There was a huge outcry as people were finding poisoned wallabies. Whoever did it was never found out, and probably would have been lynched if they were. But the complainers were not really considering the damage the wallabies were doing.

 

So what happened Sailabee, the wallabies have been eradicated?

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On 30/10/2019 at 9:20 AM, Sailabee said:

I was told that on the basis of that information, the baits were changed to flavours that do not attract birds.

Baits were changed to cinnimon flavour as it was the preferred bait of choice when Landcare Research interviewed 9 out of 10 possums.

7 minutes ago, Bee Good said:

 

Baits were changed to cinnimon flavour as it was the preferred bait of choice when Landcare Research interviewed 9 out of 10 possums.

AWH com'on james it was,nt that bad.

Edited by Bee Good
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11 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

 

No.  I don't intend to close this thread.  I keep a pretty close eye on it to ensure that no one starts getting abusive.

To me, this thread is much like the Abortion debate.  Those who believe, will believe.  Those who do not believe, will not believe. And neither side will listen to the other.

 

So to everyone I say.  Bring up your old data or jacked up photos, don't bother with truth or research because you will not convince the other side, be they believer or non believer.

 

Just don't get into personal attacks or the attacker will get warning points.

 

I really do enjoy reading some of the stories,  both fact and fable.

Good on yer Trev ..... we are full of fact and fable .... communicating to goodness knows who ..... peeling back the fabric of our lives for all to view .

Fact or fable ...... some is literary licence , but most stems from experience , embellished a bit to make a read , but read between the lines for long enough and one builds a picture. For what it's worth.

Free communication is  why the Free world is just that. 

We are the lucky ones.

Edited by jamesc
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3 hours ago, john berry said:

The southern Ruahine  mountains were once rata /Cedar forests. They were a memory before I was born due to possums and all that is left are a few lonely skeletons on the skyline. 35 years ago  when I was working on the Coromandel possums arrived and within a very short time the rata started to die. Even plants like rewarewa can and will be killed when numbers are high enough.

I agree that there are too many people in the world and we are probably the worst predator. There are also way too many beekeepers.

The skeletons of the Southern Ruahines were caused by severe droughts 100 years ago, most that are visible now, are the sun bleached Kaikawaka skeletons.

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Just got back in. Been out with my 16 yr old daughter and she shot one big pest. Protecting the clover for the bees and saving the need for tax payers money to buy more 1080. We just need to get out an shoot more. Easy.

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About 40yrs ago there was a big fire in our area .

The forest service planted it in pines .

The wife of the guy who was running the replanting thought she would try planting other stuff along the rd .

Liquid ambers , ash and other deciduous trees .

For 30yrs they never grew more than stunted shrubs . I thought it was the wind and poor soil .

But 10yrs ago the possum eradication program started .

These decidious trees are now 5 or 6 metres tall and the only thing that stunts their growth is the mowerman cause they are too close to the rd .

We also have wild plum.trees and apple trees by the side of the rd and a peach tree with nice peaches .

All this has happened since the possums were wiped out .

These trees stand out because they are different than the bush , but the same thing is happening in the bush it is just not so obvious .

 

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11 hours ago, Alastair said:

I remember that, i too had a boat then. And that at the time some local resident / s had taken it upon themselves to run an unauthorised wallaby poisoning campaign. There was a huge outcry as people were finding poisoned wallabies. Whoever did it was never found out, and probably would have been lynched if they were. But the complainers were not really considering the damage the wallabies were doing.

 

So what happened Sailabee, the wallabies have been eradicated?

Governor Grey introduced the wallabies, and like typical Aussies, quickly got out of hand. Last I heard there were non left. Those that started the poisoning were strongly and invisibly supported by DOC I believe, as eradication was the only way to green up the island. As a brown one, it was a huge fire waiting to happen, with no reticulated water to fight it. The bird life was stunning five years later - both weka and kereru in abundance, I often saw several kereru at a time - and that was just on one six acre block.

Edited by Sailabee
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8 hours ago, YTB8TA270 said:

Just got back in. Been out with my 16 yr old daughter and she shot one big pest. Protecting the clover for the bees and saving the need for tax payers money to buy more 1080. We just need to get out an shoot more. Easy.

Easy as eh . Last year we were growing  an Oat'n'pea paddock for baleage.  It never really thrived. We pinged the odd deer off it in the evening. Then  a mate came up with night vision thingy's ...... over thirty head feeding on the oats.   The hills are alive .

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2 hours ago, jamesc said:

Easy as eh . Last year we were growing  an Oat'n'pea paddock for baleage.  It never really thrived. We pinged the odd deer off it in the evening. Then  a mate came up with night vision thingy's ...... over thirty head feeding on the oats.   The hills are alive .

one of my sites the locals are letting the pigs breed up, an whenever i turn up they thing im here to feed them, and race me to my bee site

pigs1.jpg

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3 hours ago, jamesc said:

Easy as eh . Last year we were growing  an Oat'n'pea paddock for baleage.  It never really thrived. We pinged the odd deer off it in the evening. Then  a mate came up with night vision thingy's ...... over thirty head feeding on the oats.   The hills are alive .

Yep. The hills are alive. Tis a great thing, can get the kids started young filling the freezer and supplying thier friends familys with free range organic meat. Shame we cant cash em in like we used to. Deer to the chiller at 8, cash cheque cleared at pub at 11. Ah the good ole days.      Doc will need to be 1080ing em soon when they run out of possums an rats. 

 

3 hours ago, jamesc said:

 

3 hours ago, jamesc said:

 

 

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'It's really sad': How rats turned this tiny island's residents against each other
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-11/rat-infestation-on-lord-howe-island-splits-residents/11180624

 

It not just in NZ that pest control programs split communities .

 

How Lord Howe Island went from 360,000 rodents to almost none in just four months
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-01/lord-howe-island-rodent-eradication-declared-a-success/11660180

 

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19 hours ago, Alastair said:

if possums were uncontrolled the eventual outcome would be that Rata would be extinct.

 reading the link that yesbut supplied, that doesn't match/agree. What landcare seem to be saying is that the when first introduced in a area of forest, the possum numbers explode causing all kinds of havoc and mass die back. Then the food supply drops off and the numbers of possums die back too. Then it starts to level out. So, like huge trout in Lake Aniwhenua, when first flooded, there are still trout there, but not huge ones and the system gets into some form of balance. So, viewed in the longer term, the Rata are not extinct, but it is a major pain in the butt if you are collecting a harvest of rata in the interim. So, it is real bad but it isn't terminal.

 

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The problem Chris is that for Rata it would be terminal. There are plenty of other things possums can eat, but Rata is pretty much their favourite. So when there isn't much Rata left, if population is uncontrolled, they will eat other things and population can continue to grow. But in such circumstance, any rata leaf pops it's head out, there will be a nearby possum that will eat it.

 

Your theory migh work if they ate all things equally, but they don't.

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9 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

one of my sites the locals are letting the pigs breed up, an whenever i turn up they thing im here to feed them, and race me to my bee site

pigs1.jpg

That’s a lot of pigs !! 

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Off topic, but forget 1080...

 

The new nectarine is looking a bit worse for wear, so dusted off the unopened copper spray, gave it a burst. Good for strawberries and avo so gave them a once over as well.

 

Come the afternoon and I'm feeling a bit itchy. Struth but I have come up in an unholy red rash all over.

 

Message to self. Read the instructions first...

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