Jump to content
Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

It may well be but in principle at least this sort of marketing in some circumstances may be all that is keeping Bees on pastoral Clover.

There is significant value in that.

It is just my opinion. Anyone is entitled to sell what they want where they want at the price they want. Just don't comeback whinging in the future when the long term value of the industry has been crippled and the good will in Agriculture NZ inc has been diluted away. You reap what you sow! Good luck 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This great TEDtalk landed in my inbox this morning. I think it exemplifies what the honey co-op could achieve.

 

It talks about a new and better way of doing business that we will all need to embrace in the future. Instead of spending millions on marketing that has a message of “buy our honey, because we are better than anyone else”, how about telling a great story about us and our honey? This TED talk guy has done that, and it worked for him (eventually, it took a few years though).

 

I think the co-op has every chance of working if it can get started, because it is being led from the top with exactly these principles - “For each other, for the future”.

 

 

 

This guy is just great, a good watch! I don’t think the bigger corporates will be thrilled though.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Karen bee-blogger said:

This great TEDtalk landed in my inbox this morning. I think it exemplifies what the honey co-op could achieve.

 

It talks about a new and better way of doing business that we will all need to embrace in the future. Instead of spending millions on marketing that has a message of “buy our honey, because we are better than anyone else”, how about telling a great story about us and our honey? This TED talk guy has done that, and it worked for him (eventually, it took a few years though).

 

I think the co-op has every chance of working if it can get started, because it is being led from the top with exactly these principles - “For each other, for the future”.

 

 

 

This guy is just great, a good watch! I don’t think the bigger corporates will be thrilled though.

Hamdi is wonderfully inspiring and Chobani is a masterpiece brand. 

We also need to put this in perspective. Chobani has a massive commercial marketing budget (many many millions) which includes Hamdi himself as part of the essence of the brand and the ethos. He is an advocate of corporate ethics. The Anti CEO is the successful, ethical, responsible CEO. There is nothing in the CEO playbook that says shaft the employee, screw the community and avoid political responsibility. Poor CEO's may choose that direction. The Anti CEO is just a term for good CEO that see value in another direction. 

 

Also remember that this Video itself is an orchestrated part of the brand image. Hamdi does not do this to sell less product. His organisation has achieved the financial success and profitability that allows for philanthropy. He did not manage to re employ the original 50 staff by being unprofitable and producing poor product. He did not reopen the old factory producing the same products and brands that had been made before. He revolutionised the product range, the brand packaging and the image. 

 

In the retail channel that Chobani operate they have revolutionised the category, created and filled a space that did not exist. 

He should be and is applauded for giving back and as a CEO he is a leading example of moral responsibility. This does not mean that there are not countless CEO's with the same vision or aspiration.  

 

His story came from his commercial success not before it. They are intrinsically linked. His story emphasises the importance of leadership.

 

The only relevance here to a possible Co Op is that it emphasises the importance of requiring a great CEO. 

 

Edited by Adam Boot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Just a thought.  Have the beekeepers on APINZ sold their honey this season?  - maybe to buyers on the Board....  - pure speculation, and I know the info will be commercially sensitive. 

It certainly helps been connected, especially in this current climate.  

And I believe Comvita does have some legal obligation to buy honey from it's beekeepers- hence a rising 'inventory' 

 

On  a Manuka positive- 

The quality of our label and presentation of jarred honey has improved 100 fold since the manuka boom.  Quite a few beekeepers have turned into distributors of their wares around the world.  Some of them have youth, ambition, drive and desire   Sure, most do this hard work to sell their own product- though I reckon a few will develop markets for other honey types for which they may need increasing supply.  It all takes time.  

 

 

Gino, there is no buying deal between buyers on the board and member beekeepers, there is only the usual deals done between beeks and their buyers, there are some APINZ member beeks who have honey to sell, and those that have sold. Comvita have contracts with their suppliers that have some form of commitment to buy all their honey, but I dont supply comvita so not exactly sure of the arrangements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, tommy dave said:

the judge in question may have been naive, but it's effectively a New Zealand endorsement of aussie honey being sold as "manuka".

 

If anyone defending this is involved, in any way, including said judge, in selling honey to oz that is subsequently blended and packaged as manuka then that would be a great tell of their morality and standards.

 

@Dennis Crowley do you have any financial or political involvement in nz honey being sold to australian packers?

 

regardless, it sounds as though apinz are all over nz honey being sold to oz and labelled as aussie manuka, maybe cos so much comvita honey can't pass the nz manuka standard?

do you have any financial or political involvement with entities selling honey in bulk to australian packers?

that would include those players that effectively own apinz

Every one has the right to sell and do business as they want. What is important is that there are no conflicts of interest. Any NZ individual or company involved in selling Australian honey as "Manuka" or providing New Zealand honey for blending into Australian honey sold as 'Manuka'  or endorsing this practice, should not (cannot) be a member of the APINZ or part of the UMF. There commercial position would place them in a direct conflict of interest with the NZ honey industry, the protection and endorsement of the MPI Manuka honey Definition and legal battle for the international trade rights for mark brand Manuka. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, tommy dave said:

yet more personal attack while avoiding the questions. Then again, that has become your standard approach in many aspects on this forum. Respect is earned, or lost, on action.

 

Care to answer those questions? or dodge them? looks like your true colours are shining through.

 

i'll repeat the question, in case you're pretending to have missed it first time around:

 

do you have any financial or political involvement with entities selling honey in bulk to australian packers?

that would include those players that effectively own apinz

 

then again, based on history, you'll probably consider that my questions and opinions have no merit due to lack of skin in the game, so why should i care if people are kneecapping nz beekeeping by supporting aussie packed honey packed as manuka...

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy you do love a conspiracy theory, now in your mind the honey judge is seller of honey into AUS, APINZ is a honey buying packing marketer and I'm the head of a cartel.

Just stick to moon landings and chem trails.

  • Agree 1
  • Haha 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Nuc_man said:

Aren't we better to try and make a cooperative work or sit back and ask ourselves why we didn't start this years ago ? 

Wasn't that long ago that manuka was worthless .

@john berry your idea of a taste from each province premo ,I like that .

 

That was discussed at the Tauranga meeting as one of the supply/marketing options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, john berry said:

I saw plenty of honey being sold for very good prices in Norway and England last winter. Some were varietal and others were seasonal such as spring honey and summer honey and then there was mountain honey .Honeys from specific areas were also very popular.

I have some comb honey with very mixed floral sources and  rather than call it amber like we would have in the old days I name it after the area it comes from and have found that it sells  better than  named varietal honey's.If I was setting up a co-op I would be keeping batches of honey as separate as possible within reason and labelling it to New Zealand, variety and local area. It is special so keep it that way.

Being not so old to have lost all my memory, was there not a move towards geographical honey identification some 8 years ago?  I recall perhaps it was Airborne (I may be quite wrong here though) who were looking to identify specific regional varieties - partly to stand up to robust testing on typical analysis from XYZ region - to back up traceability and give a marketing edge to specific honeys from bona fide sites?  or was this like that Dallas episode with the Bobby Ewing's dream sequence ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, M4tt said:

Anyways..........😳.  

 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

 

Bruce Clow has sent an email today detailing that the lawyers involved have advised not to go to the government asking for money because they probably won't give any out. So, that's off the table for now .

 

Apparently also , there is a lot of negativity on this forum . There a bit yep, but on the whole , I don't think so. There  are a lot of ideas and discussion for and against , which isn't negativity , and the odd dig at individuals , which is, but is largely in check. 

 

@Adam Boot, you are an ideas man that sees this whole scenario from a different angle .

 

What direction would you take from here ?

First of all go back to the basics and build a strong business plan. Identify current issues and failings and build the solutions into your plan. 

Forget the Government. If the Business plan is not sound and strong enough to work and generate funding finance then it does not deserve Government help. If it is a sound investment it will not need government help. 

 

Do not seperate the business into Non Manuka and Manuka - be synergistic and all encompassing.

Determine whether a Co Op is the solution? Why is it the solution? What can it achieve and how? I am not part of this idea I am simply an observer. Those of you closer to the coal face can put me right I am sure. 

Is the a coherent plan or are we just filling space of this forum?

Is there a financial and funding model for this business proposition? Value proposition? 

Is there a secure a willing membership?

Is there an inventory of assets and how these assets can be utilised by the new entity. 

Who is the CEO and who are the board members? 

who will make up the Management executive? are they capable of the task and can the new entity afford them? 

Like I have said before. If this is a band aid and just piles a load of failing businesses together under one umbrella you will just end up with a bigger failing business. 

 

If you identify and look at some of the key issues in the industry and the market the answers may be self determining. 

 

Issues: 

  • Over crowding of hives and reduced yields - high production cost
  • Over supply capacity of packing facilities, assets and infrastructure
  • Over saturation of brands/labels with little or no differentiation, added value or improvement of choice.
  • Lack of innovation and product development
  • Fragmented industry with poor self policing. Cheating, adulteration, lacking the will to unify behind tougher higher standards and constant quality improvement. 
  • Lack of unity behind industry bodies APINZ and UMF

 

Is a Co Op required, is this the solution or will the natural course of events inevitably solve the first three questions above. 

 

You need less companies, less hives/higher yields, less brands and better utilisation of assets per kg of honey produced. Economics and market forces will force this either through voluntary consolidation, acquisition, or business insolvency. 

 

Those that engineer the situation rather than wait for the outcome will survive and prosper. The first groups to consolidate, join forces, rationalise assets and focus on core strengths will come out winners. 

 

Probably not the response you wanted as I do not see a single silver bullet solution. The current circumstance is self inflicted and will self correct. Only the speed and shape of the correction lies in the hands of the industry members. Some very tough, very quick decisions are needed. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Good Info 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Adam Boot

I like History, its often a window into the future.
History has some great examples of monumental agricultural disasters and IMO your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry has the potential to become one of them, in ideology at least.
Its really simple, New Zealand farmers need Beehives in their paddocks and Beekeepers to tend them
Someone must pay for this service and up till now that cost has been covered by pastoral Honey values.

Take those Hives out of those paddocks and New Zealand could easily be remembered for the Great Clover Collapse.
So when I read about clear skin exports etc to Australia, rightly or wrongly I do wonder how many Hives those transactions helped to keep in the Paddocks over Summer.

As its been said before, You are better off with half a Water Melon than a whole Apple

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt we are about to see some pretty stiff competition (undercutting) for pollination contracts! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Philbee said:

@Adam Boot

I like History, its often a window into the future.
History has some great examples of monumental agricultural disasters and IMO your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry has the potential to become one of them, in ideology at least.
Its really simple, New Zealand farmers need Beehives in their paddocks and Beekeepers to tend them
Someone must pay for this service and up till now that cost has been covered by pastoral Honey values.

Take those Hives out of those paddocks and New Zealand could easily be remembered for the Great Clover Collapse.
So when I read about clear skin exports etc to Australia, rightly or wrongly I do wonder how many Hives those transactions helped to keep in the Paddocks over Summer.

As its been said before, You are better off with half a Water Melon than a whole Apple

 

'History has some great examples of monumental agricultural disasters and IMO your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry has the potential to become one of them, in ideology at least'

 

You simply do not know the Honey verities I focus on or the NPD for various honey verities we have in the current pipeline. If you had even the slightest inclination you would not make comments such as 'your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry' 

 

Please do not guess where my focus is or what I am working on. Your comment lack validity. 

  • Good Info 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

No doubt we are about to see some pretty stiff competition (undercutting) for pollination contracts! 

This may be offset by growth in the Hort sector

Just now, Adam Boot said:

'History has some great examples of monumental agricultural disasters and IMO your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry has the potential to become one of them, in ideology at least'

 

You simply do not know the Honey verities I focus on or the NPD for various honey verities we have in the current pipeline. If you had even the slightest inclination you would not make comments such as 'your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry' 

 

Please do not guess where my focus is or what I am working on. Your comment lack validity. 

My comment is based on your public posts and your private communications with me

26 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

No doubt we are about to see some pretty stiff competition (undercutting) for pollination contracts! 

This may be offset to some extent by growth in the Hort sector

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There  are somethings I just dont get,  like .

Does the world just not eat honey much any more . Despite the fact that there are lots more people and humans have a natural sweet tooth .

Has sugar totally eliminated the market for honey .

Has honey production in the world massively increased despite environmental degradation that has affected forage sources .

Or is it that costs of producing honey have risen much more than the price got for selling it .

Surely until everybody works out why the product is not a desirable product anymore any co op attempts are a waste of time .

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Philbee said:

This may be offset by growth in the Hort sector

My comment is based on your public posts and your private communications with me

This may be offset to some extent by growth in the Hort sector

"My comment is based on your public posts and your private communications with me"

 

My public posts and communication with you are specific to particular comments and situations applicable to the environment of the time. They are not all encompassing or in anyway fully representative of a much broader honey vision. I have quite clear objectives for many and most honey verities. New directions and opportunities, strategies, product developments and product advancements.  

As for Manuka - The only way that becomes a monumental agricultural disaster is if the industry maintains a foot shooting policy. Market growth, consumer acceptance and demand would suggest it is up to us who successful we are. 

4 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

There  are somethings I just dont get,  like .

Does the world just not eat honey much any more . Despite the fact that there are lots more people and humans have a natural sweet tooth .

Has sugar totally eliminated the market for honey .

Has honey production in the world massively increased despite environmental degradation that has affected forage sources .

Or is it that costs of producing honey have risen much more than the price got for selling it .

Surely until everybody works out why the product is not a desirable product anymore any co op attempts are a waste of time .

With global production and consumption at 2 million tonnes per annum and growing it is not an eliminated or reducing market. NZ is just a very small piece in a very large market. Reliance on domestic consumption was never the answer, just part of the equation. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

There  are somethings I just dont get,  like .

Does the world just not eat honey much any more . Despite the fact that there are lots more people and humans have a natural sweet tooth .

Has sugar totally eliminated the market for honey .

Has honey production in the world massively increased despite environmental degradation that has affected forage sources .

Or is it that costs of producing honey have risen much more than the price got for selling it .

Surely until everybody works out why the product is not a desirable product anymore any co op attempts are a waste of time .

I don't get it either. I blindly produced milk for years under the assumption that people need food and would always pay for premium safe produce .

 

Once the cost of production gets close to or exceeds the foods monetary value, you are wasting your time producing it . Don't forget , the co op happily takes their share, or increasingly more of, to balance their books at the expense of the producer . There is legislation protecting co op capital, which is also very unhelpful to those trying to exit the business . My LIC shares are illiquid because there is no growth in dairy and they can only be sold to and expanding dairy Farmer .

 

NZ is very vulnerable to world politics and hiccups , none of which are ever helpful positively to producers . We are still price takers , and more often than not now , the price is not satisfactory .

 

I suspect we are more important in our own minds, on the world stage, than we actually are , hence the lack of demand for our products 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

You simply do not know the Honey verities I focus on or the NPD for various honey verities we have in the current pipeline. If you had even the slightest inclination you would not make comments such as 'your highly focused niche approach to the Manuka industry' 

 

 

Hi Adam - Thanks for your interesting posts, all good stuff to mull over.  I have a couple of queries what:

are honey verities?

does the acronym NPD stand for?

 

Thank you. 

(When I google NPD it comes up with Narcissistic Personality Disorder!)

 

 

  • Agree 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bbee said:

Was there not a move towards geographical honey identification some 8 years ago?  I recall perhaps it was Airborne (I may be quite wrong here though) who were looking to identify specific regional varieties - partly to stand up to robust testing on typical analysis from XYZ region - to back up traceability and give a marketing edge to specific honeys from bona fide sites? 

 

This is exactly what J Friend & Co have been doing since their beginning, probably >10 years ago. Check out their geographic specific honeys with info on the individual producers https://www.nzartisanhoney.co.nz/

1 hour ago, Maggie James said:

does the acronym NPD stand for?

 

New Product Development

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adam .... you talk about consolidating, amalgamating and engineering to survive , which is great .... but what gets me is that every time I ring you guys and send samples I am politely told that it is not what you are looking for . So what are you looking for .... the creme da la creme of high activity manuka, 0-9 clover ?   I would suggest that you have really limited you ability to grow as all those commodities are in very short supply. You guys need to widen your horizons . If you feel the co op is a non runner, then step into the market, grow some wings, and  show us how it is done  rather than just postulating and telling us why it cant be done !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maggie James said:

 

Hi Adam - Thanks for your interesting posts, all good stuff to mull over.  I have a couple of queries what:

are honey verities?

does the acronym NPD stand for?

 

Thank you. 

(When I google NPD it comes up with Narcissistic Personality Disorder!)

 

 

Your google search sounds quite apt, however in this context I meant New Product Development. Apologies for the lazy language. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about marijuana infused nz Bush honey for that sweet high you've been looking for....lol

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A value added product!  Might have medicinal value.  Honey to aid sleep, marijuana to aid pain relief or whatever. 

 

But here in Canterbury we would possibly recommend marijuana combined with beech dew - lower in glucose, lower in fructose, good for use post antibiotics, antibacterial, and I understand that antibacterial activity often exceeds manuka.   

 

Vaguely in the recesses of my mind - don't we have a mandate in the next general election re marijuana use?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

How about marijuana infused nz Bush honey for that sweet high you've been looking for....lol

Yeah nah ..... forget the infusions .... bettter of with the real deal of Marijuhana  honey. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Adam .... you talk about consolidating, amalgamating and engineering to survive , which is great .... but what gets me is that every time I ring you guys and send samples I am politely told that it is not what you are looking for . So what are you looking for .... the creme da la creme of high activity manuka, 0-9 clover ?   I would suggest that you have really limited you ability to grow as all those commodities are in very short supply. You guys need to widen your horizons . If you feel the co op is a non runner, then step into the market, grow some wings, and  show us how it is done  rather than just postulating and telling us why it cant be done !

I think pure white clover honey with UMF 20 would sell ok .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is marijuhana a  high protein pollen & quality nectar source for honey bees?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...