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Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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41 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

I should hope the government funds projects that help people, as well as brings economic wellbeing to the economy, which is what they would be doing in this instance. The way I see it is the industry is suffering and funding the co op to help get your honey to market to bring money back into New Zealanders hands is a huge win, especially for a primary industry in which the government is not held in high regard in farmers eyes.

Sounds wonderful @Thomas Clow.  The first question they are going to ask is how will the co-op achieve better access to markets and more money in beekeepers pockets.  And the reply will be..........??

2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

yes I do believe prices over the past few years has raised expectations I think we all knew things would change with a standard but not the huge changes happening right now.

whether it’s all to do with the standard or whether there’s other things going on in the background I don’t know.

In my humble view it is very simple.  Non Manuka prices were high due to blending with Manuka.  Our traditional non Manuka export markets couldn’t compete with those high prices so are now buying elsewhere - therefore no established market currently.  That is why there has been a sudden crash.  To compound the problem we have thousands more hives in nz producing significantly more non Manuka honey.  My guess is packers will be desperately trying to re-establish those export markets but it won’t be easy and it will have to be at prices comparative with current international pricing so don’t expect to get $10 kg for Bush honey anytime soon!!

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Look I am a pawn on a chess set, I don't have the gold-winning answers. The co-op has not fully established itself yet, I can't run before I can walk. The Co-op will address these things when they arise, all it takes is effort and expertise to market non-manuka honey. The difference is beekeepers will own the co-op they will know how much the price of honey is and not speculation on what their neighbor got paid from the honey buyer down the road paid. 

 

As Mr boot said, New Zealand has set a high standard for our honey, the more regulation and protocol to make sure our product is of high integrity immediately puts New Zealand honey to a high standard. New Zealand honey is not your standard budget brand on the shelf stuff. Its great product, it's easy to sell great product, we just need the money and expertise to put it there in the consumers face. 

 

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9 hours ago, Sailabee said:

 

Thank You Dennis, having a board member of ApiNZ condoning the state of affairs in such a public domain is gold! If I am censured by the administrators for posting the truth, I'm so good with that - we all have our own definition of integrity, and while a fourth generation kiwi, I'm still Irish enough to see that as far more important to me.

Lol

IMO Sailabee is inclined to put the boot in at times, kick first ask questions later
A recent example is his comment about the council continuing to allow leaky homes to be built in Browns Bay.
Ive built a number of houses in Auckland and this claim really surprised me.
I would say that the Auckland council does not allow leaky homes to be built and its a fact that new construction methods make a leaky home very unlikely

 

Edited by Philbee

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43 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

Look I am a pawn on a chess set, I don't have the gold-winning answers. The co-op has not fully established itself yet, I can't run before I can walk. The Co-op will address these things when they arise, all it takes is effort and expertise to market non-manuka honey. The difference is beekeepers will own the co-op they will know how much the price of honey is and not speculation on what their neighbor got paid from the honey buyer down the road paid. 

 

As Mr boot said, New Zealand has set a high standard for our honey, the more regulation and protocol to make sure our product is of high integrity immediately puts New Zealand honey to a high standard. New Zealand honey is not your standard budget brand on the shelf stuff. Its great product, it's easy to sell great product, we just need the money and expertise to put it there in the consumers face. 

 

As I think I've mentioned before on this this web , we here at the end of the gully are running a high octane business machine  ..... on the smell of an oily rag. It's incredibly frustrating knowing what needs to be done, but not having the resources to do it ..... so we toil away and think laterally. The high octane become 91 and the job sort of gets done.

My point is, there are many ways to cook a possum, from cordon bleu six month marinades , to boiling  it with a stone and throwing the soup away and savouring the softened rock.

The same is with the CoOp.   The co op does not initially need to be a cashed up gazillion million dollar entity. Times are tight and with a little bit of creative thinking there should be a way forward. 

No 1 is the Co op needs a man with Hiking boots to go take a global hike ASAP  and see what the heck is going on.  A visa card with 60k credit should easily sort that. He  will need a  cell phone and a roaming  card to report back to base.  

The Global hiker susses out a few orders.

No 2 .... We are a creative nation so labels are no problem ..... glass or plastic is the customers choice ..... the co op is happy to please.

No3 .... Product is not in short supply ..... I can find you 200 tonnes of any sort of honey bar manuka  within an hour tonight on my cell phone ..... no roaming card.

No4 .... Now this is the biggy ...... Coop members intially supply honey to the  co op's contract packer in liue of buying shares ..... that gets the ball rolling. The honey purchaser intially fronts up cash for the first few orders as a sign of good faith and to build Mana.

 

The biggest Biggy is that those who put their hands up to join the Co op need to have faith, generosity of spirit and a binding hope and honesty to see the idea through to it's conclusion.

 

The Co op is rolling ..... and self funding , and we have confident beekeepers smacking up boxes and frames for the next season ,,,,,, which is only eight weeks away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jamesc
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@jamesc We will be at apimondia this september with the co-op, plenty of global honey buyers there, should be a great initial start. And yes a very great idea, any more are always welcome. cheers.

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1 minute ago, Thomas Clow said:

@jamesc We will be at apimondia this september with the co-op, plenty of global honey buyers there, should be a great initial start. And yes a very great idea, any more are always welcome. cheers.

Apimondia will give you the abilty to mix with all sorts of people and Co ops and collectives ..... don't forget yer hiking boots !

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1 hour ago, Thomas Clow said:

Its great product, it's easy to sell great product, we just need the money and expertise to put it there in the consumers face. 

Are there not already a number of established exporters out there doing this?? They might argue about the “easy to sell” comment - especially at a premium above current world prices.   

Again I would really like this to succeed but all you are suggesting is spending money (that no one has) to replicate what is already being done by established exporters with existing infrastructure and expertise.  

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11 minutes ago, Ted said:

Are there not already a number of established exporters out there doing this?? They might argue about the “easy to sell” comment - especially at a premium above current world prices.   

Again I would really like this to succeed but all you are suggesting is spending money (that no one has) to replicate what is already being done by established exporters with existing infrastructure and expertise.  

So why is my phone not ringing red hot every day with these established exporters looking for my product.

The industry has collapsed .... we are in dire straits, and families and communities  will suffer if we sit on our arses and do nothing. Man o Man  .... do not get me started .... I'm boiling possum for tea, but  will throw it away and eat the lentils in the remaining soup.

And here's another thought for the evening .....' The trouble with society today is that there are too many people lurking in high  viz vests and not enough prepared to go commando'.

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Things can't be too tight if you can afford lentils, otherwise you would throw huhu grubs in for protein. 

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12 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Great marketing angle for the winner though being able to state their “Manuka” Won first prize as judged by New Zealand’s top honey judge :( 

the judge in question may have been naive, but it's effectively a New Zealand endorsement of aussie honey being sold as "manuka".

 

If anyone defending this is involved, in any way, including said judge, in selling honey to oz that is subsequently blended and packaged as manuka then that would be a great tell of their morality and standards.

 

@Dennis Crowley do you have any financial or political involvement in nz honey being sold to australian packers?

 

regardless, it sounds as though apinz are all over nz honey being sold to oz and labelled as aussie manuka, maybe cos so much comvita honey can't pass the nz manuka standard?

7 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

We kiwis are not slow to change the name of things to suit us, NZ kiwifruit is only a Chinese goosberry. Stop being small minded.

do you have any financial or political involvement with entities selling honey in bulk to australian packers?

that would include those players that effectively own apinz

Edited by tommy dave
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9 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

Things can't be too tight if you can afford lentils, otherwise you would throw huhu grubs in for protein. 

Funny lady ..... we have a very old tree here that has a preservation order on it. It's Monterey pine. I got a letter from the council yesterday informing me that I could access a heritage preservation fund to maintain it . How the heck do you preserve a  tree being eaten alive by hou hou grubs. Better off to chop it down, mill the timber and use the funds to float a co op that will preserve a few jobs ..... lateral thinking ... right !

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And how many hundreds of dollars of my rates, did it take the district council to run back & forth assessing this tree?  And how many high viz jackets & hard hats were purchased for this assessment, and mileage, not to mention written reports.  Insane.  I suppose there is someone employed to assess it every few weeks. 

 

I fully understand the lack of huhus for T

 

If you access the heritage fund, it doesn't mean to say the thing will live

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

So why is my phone not ringing red hot every day with these established exporters looking for my product.

The industry has collapsed .... we are in dire straits, and families and communities  will suffer if we sit on our arses and do nothing. Man o Man  .... do not get me started .... I'm boiling possum for tea, but  will throw it away and eat the lentils in the remaining soup.

And here's another thought for the evening .....' The trouble with society today is that there are too many people lurking in high  viz vests and not enough prepared to go commando'.

Because we turned our back on our traditional export markets and they are now buying elsewhere.  They won’t be won back overnight!!  It will take a long time to gain their confidence again.  

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Some of the traditional markets may not be won back

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1 minute ago, Ted said:

Because we turned our back on our traditional export markets and they are now buying elsewhere.  They won’t be won back overnight!!  It will take a long time to gain their confidence again.  

Exactly, which is why we need to take the fight to the market and not sit back on our laurels waiting for a handout in the way of overseas buyers deciding that the time might be right to enter the NZ market again..  It takes forty minutes for the firebrigade to get to our house if we need them. I put in a high pressure hose here  the other year so I can  sort the problem in five .

29 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

 

 

And how many hundreds of dollars of my rates, did it take the district council to run back & forth assessing this tree?  And how many high viz jackets & hard hats were purchased for this assessment, and mileage, not to mention written reports.  Insane.  I suppose there is someone employed to assess it every few weeks. 

 

I fully understand the lack of huhus for T

 

If you access the heritage fund, it doesn't mean to say the thing will live

The question I have is how the heck did the council even know the tree existed ?

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I saw plenty of honey being sold for very good prices in Norway and England last winter. Some were varietal and others were seasonal such as spring honey and summer honey and then there was mountain honey .Honeys from specific areas were also very popular.

I have some comb honey with very mixed floral sources and  rather than call it amber like we would have in the old days I name it after the area it comes from and have found that it sells  better than  named varietal honey's.If I was setting up a co-op I would be keeping batches of honey as separate as possible within reason and labelling it to New Zealand, variety and local area. It is special so keep it that way.

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34 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Exactly, which is why we need to take the fight to the market and not sit back on our laurels waiting for a handout in the way of overseas buyers deciding that the time might be right to enter the NZ market again..  It takes forty minutes for the firebrigade to get to our house if we need them. I put in a high pressure hose here  the other year so I can  sort the problem in five .

Do you not think that fight is currently underway??  But hey if you want to throw cash at a co-op good luck to you!!

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1 hour ago, tommy dave said:

the judge in question may have been naive, but it's effectively a New Zealand endorsement of aussie honey being sold as "manuka".

 

If anyone defending this is involved, in any way, including said judge, in selling honey to oz that is subsequently blended and packaged as manuka then that would be a great tell of their morality and standards.

 

@Dennis Crowley do you have any financial or political involvement in nz honey being sold to australian packers?

 

regardless, it sounds as though apinz are all over nz honey being sold to oz and labelled as aussie manuka, maybe cos so much comvita honey can't pass the nz manuka standard?

do you have any financial or political involvement with entities selling honey in bulk to australian packers?

that would include those players that effectively own apinz

Tom your a legend in your own mind, but you love to clutch at straws

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Aren't we better to try and make a cooperative work or sit back and ask ourselves why we didn't start this years ago ? 

Wasn't that long ago that manuka was worthless .

@john berry your idea of a taste from each province premo ,I like that .

 

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Tom your a legend in your own mind, but you love to clutch at straws

yet more personal attack while avoiding the questions. Then again, that has become your standard approach in many aspects on this forum. Respect is earned, or lost, on action.

 

Care to answer those questions? or dodge them? looks like your true colours are shining through.

 

i'll repeat the question, in case you're pretending to have missed it first time around:

 

do you have any financial or political involvement with entities selling honey in bulk to australian packers?

that would include those players that effectively own apinz

 

then again, based on history, you'll probably consider that my questions and opinions have no merit due to lack of skin in the game, so why should i care if people are kneecapping nz beekeeping by supporting aussie packed honey packed as manuka...

Edited by tommy dave
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3 hours ago, jamesc said:

Exactly, which is why we need to take the fight to the market and not sit back on our laurels waiting for a handout in the way of overseas buyers deciding that the time might be right to enter the NZ market again..  It takes forty minutes for the firebrigade to get to our house if we need them. I put in a high pressure hose here  the other year so I can  sort the problem in five .

The question I have is how the heck did the council even know the tree existed ?

The same way they know if you have extended  your roof or added a building .

They send planes over to spy on all the rate payers .

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9 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Tom your a legend in your own mind, but you love to clutch at straws

 

Just a thought.  Have the beekeepers on APINZ sold their honey this season?  - maybe to buyers on the Board....  - pure speculation, and I know the info will be commercially sensitive. 

It certainly helps been connected, especially in this current climate.  

And I believe Comvita does have some legal obligation to buy honey from it's beekeepers- hence a rising 'inventory' 

 

On  a Manuka positive- 

The quality of our label and presentation of jarred honey has improved 100 fold since the manuka boom.  Quite a few beekeepers have turned into distributors of their wares around the world.  Some of them have youth, ambition, drive and desire   Sure, most do this hard work to sell their own product- though I reckon a few will develop markets for other honey types for which they may need increasing supply.  It all takes time.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, Ted said:

Do you not think that fight is currently underway??  But hey if you want to throw cash at a co-op good luck to you!!

From where I sit there appears to be no battle going on at all on the sales front  .... but then Beekeepers are renowned for playing their cards close to their chests , which, when an industry is struggling, is a real shame. Or maybe it's a case of the ship is sinking, there are only limited lifejackets, so it's every man for himself.

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On 26/05/2019 at 1:08 PM, Maggie James said:

 

 

The NZ Beekeeper is not circumventing the law.  They sell a product related to their harvest dec and lab analysis.  It is not what is in the jar that is the prob, it is the label, and it would appear that it is the Australians who are putting the labels on jars. 

Call it as you see it. Clear skinning (unlabelled jars) is a loop hole. The intention and essence of NZ labelling laws are to try and enforce label and quality compliance. Shipping bulk and clear skin to packers who are working to a looser set of rules is damaging the the Manuka industry and NZ inc. 

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21 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

damaging the the Manuka industry and NZ inc. 

It may well be but in principle at least this sort of marketing in some circumstances may be all that is keeping Bees on pastoral Clover.

There is significant value in that.

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